Club Weeklies vs BIG FAT HUGE CUP EVENTS

Discuss racing matters here. Note that race results and past rules cases have their own sections.

Re: Club Weeklies vs BIG FAT HUGE CUP EVENTS

Postby Naeve Rossini » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:36 pm

As a racer...

I live and operate in a time zone (SLT) that is not particularly aligned with the hours of activity for most sailors in SL, primarily the European/East American prime time and the East Asian prime time. At best, I get the trailing edge of those events, which don't start later than 6 pm SLT, which is often too early for me to participate.

As a race director...

I suppose I could just run races when I am online, but as Nomad succinctly pointed out, the spectre of running a weekly event is a bit much for me to handle based on my RL schedule. Primarily, I cannot commit to the same time on a weekly basis. Would the community be okay if I presented a "Usually on X day" event? Maybe... or maybe it'd be better to generate a group with a regular meeting time and have the members rotate as RDs.

My experience of becoming a race director was it was incredibly simple. I went to a club and said I'd like to run races of their nearby line. They didn't think I was a tool, so they gave me the keys and I was off and running. It's not nearly as hard as one might think. Even if you're not an RD, you can still run races since anyone can work the line. Being an RD really means you have access to post notices on certain groups.

As a large event organiser...

This is the thing that suits me the best. I like the scope of dealing with large events. I also like that they're temporary. So, I can get really fired up for a few weeks and then relax. However, there's no point in doing so without the club weeklies. There's a definite need for them.

What I don't like are the cancellations in deference to tournaments. Having run head to head with Orca on this in the past and learned something from it, I'm fully of the opinion that any conflict for a race event should be worked out with the incumbent event beforehand.

Also, regular club races should not be canceled for tournaments. Regular club events should continue to run as usual and racers looking to practice will just have to deal with it. The club weeklies were scheduled first. Also, the importance of continuing club weeklies during a tournament is all the more apparent when you realise that not everyone is in the tournament and they still need something to do.

So what about our atrophying community?

1. When I first started in Feb 2009, slsailing.net was a great place to get information. I'm sure there were golden days before it that I missed, but there were great discussions here. There was the occasional flare up, but nothing too bad. Nowadays, the bickering that goes on here is so embarrassing that I am hesitant to send any new sailor to this site.

2. The nature of online communities is they come and go and they continually refresh. How well you attract new members and retain old members will determine whether or not the community thrives or declines. Right now we are doing the latter. We're not serving our old members and we're not attracting new people and keeping them, which is why we see ever declining numbers in the weekly club races.

3. Collectively, we need to help each other out. Epicurus was a terrific example of the kind of sportsmanship we need to promote this community and grow it. Greater focus on novice events. More newbie friendly events. And on the topic of newbies, advanced sailors... don't push the limits of the rules in the casual races. If you do, call yourself on your fouls, do your penalty, and apologise.

(And before anyone chooses to challenge the notion that we are a community, we are. There are a lot of other communities within the larger sailing community with differing ideas, but ultimately there is still a pretty large umbrella community that encompasses us all.)
Naeve Rossini
Cute. Real cute.
User avatar
Naeve Rossini
 
Posts: 516
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 1:31 pm
Location: Rossini Reef, Currant

Re: Club Weeklies vs BIG FAT HUGE CUP EVENTS

Postby Carmen Foden » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:50 pm

Naeve Rossini wrote:As a racer...

I live and operate in a time zone (SLT) that is not particularly aligned with the hours of activity for most sailors in SL, primarily the European/East American prime time and the East Asian prime time. At best, I get the trailing edge of those events, which don't start later than 6 pm SLT, which is often too early for me to participate.

As a race director...

I suppose I could just run races when I am online, but as Nomad succinctly pointed out, the spectre of running a weekly event is a bit much for me to handle based on my RL schedule. Primarily, I cannot commit to the same time on a weekly basis. Would the community be okay if I presented a "Usually on X day" event? Maybe... or maybe it'd be better to generate a group with a regular meeting time and have the members rotate as RDs.

My experience of becoming a race director was it was incredibly simple. I went to a club and said I'd like to run races of their nearby line. They didn't think I was a tool, so they gave me the keys and I was off and running. It's not nearly as hard as one might think. Even if you're not an RD, you can still run races since anyone can work the line. Being an RD really means you have access to post notices on certain groups.

As a large event organiser...

This is the thing that suits me the best. I like the scope of dealing with large events. I also like that they're temporary. So, I can get really fired up for a few weeks and then relax. However, there's no point in doing so without the club weeklies. There's a definite need for them.

What I don't like are the cancellations in deference to tournaments. Having run head to head with Orca on this in the past and learned something from it, I'm fully of the opinion that any conflict for a race event should be worked out with the incumbent event beforehand.

Also, regular club races should not be canceled for tournaments. Regular club events should continue to run as usual and racers looking to practice will just have to deal with it. The club weeklies were scheduled first. Also, the importance of continuing club weeklies during a tournament is all the more apparent when you realise that not everyone is in the tournament and they still need something to do.

So what about our atrophying community?

1. When I first started in Feb 2009, slsailing.net was a great place to get information. I'm sure there were golden days before it that I missed, but there were great discussions here. There was the occasional flare up, but nothing too bad. Nowadays, the bickering that goes on here is so embarrassing that I am hesitant to send any new sailor to this site.

2. The nature of online communities is they come and go and they continually refresh. How well you attract new members and retain old members will determine whether or not the community thrives or declines. Right now we are doing the latter. We're not serving our old members and we're not attracting new people and keeping them, which is why we see ever declining numbers in the weekly club races.

3. Collectively, we need to help each other out. Epicurus was a terrific example of the kind of sportsmanship we need to promote this community and grow it. Greater focus on novice events. More newbie friendly events. And on the topic of newbies, advanced sailors... don't push the limits of the rules in the casual races. If you do, call yourself on your fouls, do your penalty, and apologise.

(And before anyone chooses to challenge the notion that we are a community, we are. There are a lot of other communities within the larger sailing community with differing ideas, but ultimately there is still a pretty large umbrella community that encompasses us all.)


Hey this is on topic

No Poo slinging?

No name calling?

No world domination plots?

Naeve I'm not sure you know how this forum works anymore. :lol:
User avatar
Carmen Foden
 
Posts: 220
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:57 pm
Location: On the shore, Lake Erie Ohio

Re: Club Weeklies vs BIG FAT HUGE CUP EVENTS

Postby Naeve Rossini » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:55 pm

Carmen Foden wrote:Hey this is on topic

No Poo slinging?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg2AezJo8aQ

Carmen Foden wrote:No name calling?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSEYXWmEse8

Carmen Foden wrote:No world domination plots?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCpjgl2baLs

Carmen Foden wrote:Naeve I'm not sure you know how this forum works anymore. :lol:


Are you not entertained?
Naeve Rossini
Cute. Real cute.
User avatar
Naeve Rossini
 
Posts: 516
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 1:31 pm
Location: Rossini Reef, Currant

Re: Club Weeklies vs BIG FAT HUGE CUP EVENTS

Postby Carmen Foden » Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:03 pm

Naeve Rossini wrote:
Carmen Foden wrote:Hey this is on topic

No Poo slinging?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg2AezJo8aQ

Carmen Foden wrote:No name calling?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSEYXWmEse8

Carmen Foden wrote:No world domination plots?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCpjgl2baLs

Carmen Foden wrote:Naeve I'm not sure you know how this forum works anymore. :lol:


Are you not entertained?


Yeah that's better.
User avatar
Carmen Foden
 
Posts: 220
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:57 pm
Location: On the shore, Lake Erie Ohio

Re: Club Weeklies vs BIG FAT HUGE CUP EVENTS

Postby Orca Flotta » Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:31 pm

Don Berithos wrote:First of all my point about The SLSA CALANDER WAS POST ONE IN FRONT YOU CLUB I SAID THATS BASHING //////?/?????

I stil don't understand what you are trying to say here. Did I bash the SLSA calendar? And what about "my" club?

Second Your tone is not respectful of Moth so yes you need to reminded,

Fortunately it's not on you to remind me of anything. I know myself that I don't respect Mothgirl. I disrespect her for various reasons. And I stand to that. Same as I clearly state here that I disrespect you. I just disrespect stupid people without any people skills and low EQ. Period.

Third filling Calander with events you have no rds for and them complaining about is babling .

Babbling? Are we forgetting our manners again, boy?
And true, when I stared the events I had much more energy and didn't calculate the burn-out-syndrom into the equation. And I was much more hopeful to find more support in the ranks of TrYC. I was wrong. My bad.

Fourth Exactly whats wrong with this idea everone else Ive taked thought it was a good idea, Now you going moderate the forum you've been banned from twenty times //???

Maybe, it's a good idea indeed. As I stated in one of my edits already it might work out for you. But it won't help with the basic problem, the problem you so leisurely seem to ignore here. Short, your idea has no point in this thread.
And why am I or should I moderate the forum? I don't know how your mind works but it is not pretty. And I've been banned from the forum exactly twice, not 20 times. And, yes, I saw both bans coming but since I'm a woman of strong principles I couldn't avoid it. So I let them ban me and show how wrong they were. BTW, it's not any of your business but let me tell you: Mothgirl once tried to pull the same argument against me and failed as badly as you.

Im holdoing races in the Blake tommrrow How Is that SLSA mtw bashing /???

Maybe I misread you, whgich is very easy. But you have a known history of stupid fights against MTW, USS, SLSA. Fights you always lost. And your post sounded as if you attacked me for using the SLSA calendar.

Lets Face it Thats what you want see and that what you constantly emit , Is negative comments ,

Oh my, I'm starting vto believe you are indeed an alt of Mothgirl ... or her stupid little brother. She had the same problem to distinguish between criticism and negativity.

You may think your witty replys are some sort answer.

Thank you for calling my replies witty. Too bad I can't say the same about your brainless gibberish.

In fact they don't make any sense half the time and you contradict your posts on a regular basis.

Now you can't help yourself in any other way than just spreading some stupid lies about me? I do believe my posts don't make much sense to you, but that's simply due your lack of intellectual capacity to grasp them. Secondly haven't I just told you that I'm a woman of strong principles? As that it's impossible for me to contradict myself.

Traveling around the grid I believe will help and has been a practice by our club for sometime ,

Nice to hear it helped. May I ask in waht regard did it help?

No where have i mentioned SLSA or MTW

No, you didn't, but I did. For the rest read my answer above, dunno why you mention teh same shit twice in one posting.

In Fact im working with bea to get the Grading up and running for the Wildcats A boat you have trashed repeatly .

If you don't stop your lies anytime soon I'll do a world's first adn will ask the mod to ban you from this forum. In fact many ppl are wondering why you are still allowed to spread your shit here. I never trashed the boat per se, it's a nice boat. Not as good as expected but obviously nice enough. What I also didn't trash but mildly criticised was the way it was falsely promoted.

As also the ACA that you trashed repeatly during the SLVT, But yet Your holding races ,

I'm not a friend of the ACA, never was. Everybody knows that, you're not telling us any news here. But again, I never trashed it. And what that has to do with me holding races .. only you will ever know. Heck, I might even hold an ACA race, in fact I will when asked so for the upcoming ACA cup. What's wrong now with cooperation and support?

If your attitude is always going to be everones doing it wrong.

Another lie. I'm wrong very often, I need help from others very often.

Orca then why dont you show us all how to do it, Why not share all that Knowledge with us those honed Marketing skills of yours.

Wow, have you been a student of Prokofy Neva as well? Your generous use of fog and mirrors is almost overwhelming. You liitle trickster you :) I am in fact a good marketeer but that has nothing to do with what I ever did in any RL job or what I do in SL. But I'm a thinking consumer, and the way how Mothgirl tried to forcefeed her Fizz into SL sailing didn't go down well with most of the more mature part of the population.

Why dont you put them to better use.

I put everthing to good use what I think is useful.

According to You All the reggatas and cups suck none knows what there doing, and yet you ALWAYS seem to have the master plan your just not sharing with us .

Oh my, so many words and articles and you're still riding on the same old lie.Again: I NEVER SAID ALL THE REGATTAS AND CUPS SUCK I DON'T HAVE A FUCKING MASTERPLAN! Get it, dummy!

Go ahead take another shot at SLVT as far as im concerned with all the negaitve behind scenes Schemes and criticism I belive it was one most successful cups ever

I only heard a lot of negatice comments from people you managed to piss off, shy away, fight with or let them do all the work while you did fuckall. Can't really say since I wasn't in SL during that time. Only heard the complaints after my return.

,Especially seeing it was my first . Lots people effortly helped us and they all should be praised not belittled by you,

Since I wasn't involved with any of it there is no logical reason for either praise nor belittling. So I stay decidedly uninterested if I may. I wonder why you aer bringing the SLVT up in this thread anyway. Oh, I know, you're desperately looking for new ways to fail in slinging mud at me. Congrats, you succeeded in finding a new low.

Dont bother writing another page of denial and what I meants

You little shithead don't tell me what pages I write about what subject whatsover!

, You treat anyone who disagrees with you or if it isnt your idea as a target and an open invitation for your form of communication .

Right. Or almost right, if one takes all the falsehood and bias out of your sentence. "I happily engage in an open discourse with anyone who wants to share and discuss ideas." That sounds much nicer and meets my true meaning much better, doesn't it?

GGYCSL GRADING RACES AT 11:30 am SL> Sunday 3/12/2011 remeber folks were moving the clocks ahead here so take that into consideration , Below are the planned charts for tommrrow .Links because the file are to big for here,

http://igotwind.blogspot.com/p/sl-acws-charts.html

Okay, if we are at such a low level of personal attacks now: this spamming of an completely unrelated event speaks volumes about your mindset. As I said earlier, it's not pretty. Your spam has no place neither in this thread nor in the forum in general. There exists a special term for lowlifes like you: "social griefer". I prefer "internet terrorist" tho.


EDIT: Woah, that was exhausting. Wasted much too much precious energy on you now. And what for? Exactly nothing! You are a bad apple, a lost cause, helpless. And soooo not worth it. So I do now the same I did with Mothgirl once: In order to protect myself and make my life a little better I'll follow my own inworld example and will ignore everything you write in this forum from now on. Consider yourself muted when talking to me.
Orca Flotta
 

Re: Club Weeklies vs BIG FAT HUGE CUP EVENTS

Postby Bea Woodget » Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:53 pm

deleted
Last edited by Bea Woodget on Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
And what if I tell you that some of my posts, doesn't reflect a critical side, but a perfectionist side, that I can not stand mediocrity when one could do great things even easier. Do I deserve a spanking? Do not say "yes!" or assume...
User avatar
Bea Woodget
 
Posts: 937
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:09 am

Re: Club Weeklies vs BIG FAT HUGE CUP EVENTS

Postby Bea Woodget » Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:43 am

deleted
Last edited by Bea Woodget on Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
And what if I tell you that some of my posts, doesn't reflect a critical side, but a perfectionist side, that I can not stand mediocrity when one could do great things even easier. Do I deserve a spanking? Do not say "yes!" or assume...
User avatar
Bea Woodget
 
Posts: 937
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:09 am

Re: Club Weeklies vs BIG FAT HUGE CUP EVENTS

Postby Liv Leigh » Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:49 am

Let me react to Bea here, as I can't be bothered to read post that consist of multiple pages, watch YouTube links and other weirdness in the debate:

I don't think it is needed to be so negative about people's reception of the SLSA-rankings. So far we have had no big tournament that could have used it for qualification purposes. There is a need for new classes in the rankings system now. Some of the classes in the rankings system are dying as we speak: I don't think RCJ-44 or Patchogue have a great future ahead of them anymore. (The average life expectancy of a race class being about 6 months makes for an interesting subject when debating the Q-factor maybe, but that's another subject)

Yes, I read the surveys when they came out, but they gave me little information to work with. People can state they want this or that, but unless they show some serious effort to work on those wishes, I am not interested in facilitating them. I will simply run the events I want to run myself. If 'sailors' want more variety in racing events, they may also consider that organisers (which your much-hated yacht clubs are), are volunteers who have limited time at their disposal and can't just respond to every whim of, to quote Orca, the 'sailing consumers'.

And this is to everyone in the community: if you want something, don't sit still, don't just ask for it, but go after it. Nothing will happen, unless you show initiative.


“If I’d asked my customers what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse.” Henry Ford
User avatar
Liv Leigh
 
Posts: 1993
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:21 pm
Location: Sala-Y-Gomez

Re: Club Weeklies vs BIG FAT HUGE CUP EVENTS

Postby Orca Flotta » Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:59 am

Any good community works from the base up. Only in SL some people are trying to force the community system onto us from top down.
And don as the sole owner and dictator of 2 yacht clubs doesn't really suit your example, Béa. His reason why he went into other areas with his races might very much differ from yours. Be careful of your alliances.
Orca Flotta
 

Re: Club Weeklies vs BIG FAT HUGE CUP EVENTS

Postby Orca Flotta » Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:33 am

Naeve Rossini wrote:As a race director...
Would the community be okay if I presented a "Usually on X day" event? Maybe... or maybe it'd be better to generate a group with a regular meeting time and have the members rotate as RDs.

Naeve, thanks very much for your answer. This question of yours alone shows that you are thinking about the responsibilities of an RD much more than most others. No RD is able to make it to all their races each and every week, and I guess that's just normal and not a problem at all. For that most YCs have RD groups (we should form an independent group for RDs to share ressources btw) where you can ask around for a substitute.

As a large event organiser...
Also, regular club races should not be canceled for tournaments. Regular club events should continue to run as usual and racers looking to practice will just have to deal with it. The club weeklies were scheduled first. Also, the importance of continuing club weeklies during a tournament is all the more apparent when you realise that not everyone is in the tournament and they still need something to do.

Yes, yes, yes. You're absolutely right! ... in theory :roll:
But let's take a peek into the reality of super shallow SL: Hadn't I canceled my Saturday races during the OW all by myself, do you think they would've asked me for permission to use my timeslot? That's not how our community works. Someone just decides the "this and that cup" is the hottest thing now, so all other activities have to take a step aside.
In a milder form the same appears for events that are not touched directly by the mega cup. What use is it for an RD to sit at the startline all by their lonesome while the usual group of racers is busy practicing for the next cup event? I tried to compensate by shifting my race classes temporarily to the ONE, but it didn't help much neither.
So, why should an RD bother with it? I used the time to go shopping, which is far more relaxing and satisfying than organizing a race for nobody.
Orca Flotta
 

Re: Club Weeklies vs BIG FAT HUGE CUP EVENTS

Postby Liv Leigh » Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:25 am

I prefer not to cancel my weekly races when a cup event is taking place. For saturday events this may be hard though, esp. since there can be overlaps with time and location. Some RD's and clubs I know do this though, can't stop them. Generally it doesn't make me feel any good if one of my favourite events on a weekday is cancelled because people are training for some saturday race.
User avatar
Liv Leigh
 
Posts: 1993
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:21 pm
Location: Sala-Y-Gomez

Re: Club Weeklies vs BIG FAT HUGE CUP EVENTS

Postby Bea Woodget » Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:30 am

deleted
Last edited by Bea Woodget on Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
And what if I tell you that some of my posts, doesn't reflect a critical side, but a perfectionist side, that I can not stand mediocrity when one could do great things even easier. Do I deserve a spanking? Do not say "yes!" or assume...
User avatar
Bea Woodget
 
Posts: 937
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:09 am

Re: Club Weeklies vs BIG FAT HUGE CUP EVENTS

Postby Bea Woodget » Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:31 am

deleted
Last edited by Bea Woodget on Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
And what if I tell you that some of my posts, doesn't reflect a critical side, but a perfectionist side, that I can not stand mediocrity when one could do great things even easier. Do I deserve a spanking? Do not say "yes!" or assume...
User avatar
Bea Woodget
 
Posts: 937
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:09 am

Re: Club Weeklies vs BIG FAT HUGE CUP EVENTS

Postby Don Berithos » Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:02 am

Any good community works from the base up. Only in SL some people are trying to force the community system onto us from top down.
And don as the sole owner and dictator of 2 yacht clubs doesn't really suit your example, Béa. His reason why he went into other areas with his races might very much differ from yours. Be careful of your alliances.
This is why i respond to you the way I do this and this alone just using the alliance in a sentence here describes Your true intentions . Your post viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5724 Alone shows your motives dear.

We have GGYCSL in San Francisco For one reason to hold the Americas Cup . And Vuittion Challenger Series ,The finals Something you cant do on mainland waters. Believe meI would if I could ,That why all the qualifiers will be offered to all the clubs in sl no matter how big or small.
What base up are you referring to our Club is One year old this month . I raced for one before that , everything we have done was well planned and we did our homework . Paid our Dues If thats what your referring to Meet with all the teams and organizers and traveled at our own expense ,You call me a dictator Im the first volunteer and The last leave usually .
Remind me next time ill check with you before we plan anything else . For that matter everone check with Orca See if what your planning suits her ,
We had a great turn out yesterday and support from Francois And Joy Who offered there help . Time leap a head day probably wasn't best day to start . I ve run five reallife Yacht club s and still sit on the board of two .Oraca in my lifetime What base shall i start from ?
There no evil alliances Just strait forward new day bury the hatchet and lets begin a new . Drop the rant on me and our club its getting way old .,,,,,
User avatar
Don Berithos
 
Posts: 460
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:26 am
Location: The barnegat bay

Re: Club Weeklies vs BIG FAT HUGE CUP EVENTS

Postby Liv Leigh » Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:05 am

Some of us may like to have graded WildCat races, I suppose, given the number of ACA races, making one extra graded might be in place too.
I think the Quest 2M is quite promising and I'd think it interesting to have some races with that boat. Once there are some events with it, including it in ranking should be a small step.
User avatar
Liv Leigh
 
Posts: 1993
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:21 pm
Location: Sala-Y-Gomez

PreviousNext

Return to Racing

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron