Club Weeklies vs BIG FAT HUGE CUP EVENTS

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Club Weeklies vs BIG FAT HUGE CUP EVENTS

Postby Orca Flotta » Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:48 am

Ahoy Fraggles ^^

This question bothers me, and many others too, as I found out, since quite a while. We all see diminishing numbers of attending racers at our scheduled weekly club races. Even when they are beefed up by some grading system. On the other hand when e.g. Jane calls for a worldcup event of epic proportions, like J-Classics or OW, the community goes wild and swarms out in the dozens to form crews, organizing committees, parties and whatnots. Alone the interest the last OW caused in this forum speaks volumes about the success these events are as crowd pleasers.

Nothing wrong with that.

But (you know, no Orca post without a 'but') did it help the "normal" activities, the "normal" schedule and work done by and for the community? Do we see a shift in interests by the individual sailors? Are the big monster events the future of SL sailing? Are our sailors spoilt by choice?

The thing is, let me make this clear, it is not satisfactory for any RD to sit at the startline all by themself or host a race with 2-3 boats max. At TrYC we're working on some ideas to make weekly events more fun, refreshing and worthwhile ... but that also demands some planning and labour for us. Question now is: does it even make sense to spend any thoughts on club races? Or shall we rather spend our energy into planning the next big thing? Go for a few months without races and culminate all effort into one huge climax?

I don't wanna make this a poll but nevertheless am I interested to hear about it from you, the community. What is it you want? What do you prefer?
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Re: Club Weeklies vs BIG FAT HUGE CUP EVENTS

Postby Bea Woodget » Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:02 am

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Last edited by Bea Woodget on Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
And what if I tell you that some of my posts, doesn't reflect a critical side, but a perfectionist side, that I can not stand mediocrity when one could do great things even easier. Do I deserve a spanking? Do not say "yes!" or assume...
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Re: Club Weeklies vs BIG FAT HUGE CUP EVENTS

Postby Liv Leigh » Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:15 am

I know the problem Orca. I have been hosting events for 3 years now and it never changes: half the races hosted are for a minimum number of racers. This is not just due to months long events swallowing up all the attention, there are a number of additional problems. For one: additional race directors are nearly impossible to be found for a club, which makes the business of weekly races into a rather frustrating one for me as organiser. Generally the people who do not join in at the races seem to have all kinds of good ideas and suggestions too.

I get requests... People ask me things like: 'Oh.. I'd like to have races in boat class A or B. Could you do that?'
Normally my answer will be something like this: 'I host 2 races a week myself in boats that I wish to support. As much as I like to support boat A or B as well, the time I am willing to invest into hosting myself is limited. If you want this race so badly, help me find reliable staff or start doing it yourself.'
The same with boat makers. Some of them want to have their boats raced, but they don't want to invest into regular events for them. That usually kills off any chance of their racing classes becoming popular. It is 'funny' to see how many boat builders seem to think it suffices to build a good racing boat that 'will sell itself'.
Frustrating, as there are many good projects underway and I know that out of 1100+ group members I may only get 2 or 3 people that are seriously motivated to help me support additional racing classes. And maybe only up to 15 people who want to race in them.

As about racing myself: I find that I still appear in the same 'weeklies' during big events. I do however see a negative effect of those events upon my other SL activities, which makes me wonder if I should be involved as much in them in the future in terms of time spent. 'Weeklies' like the Thursday 5AM/6AM Fizz have my attention though, as some of them are amongst the best races we have in SL when it comes to pure sailing quality.

As for the masses.. I don't know if I should wish to bother. They come and go and contribute little. I prefer to organise something for a small group of dedicated people and let other people handle the big crowded stuff for me.
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Re: Club Weeklies vs BIG FAT HUGE CUP EVENTS

Postby Don Berithos » Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:12 am

ORCA has a Good point here . Thats what Ive been talking about . My idea was To with the ACj wildcat series . AKA AC35 /45 . Sl Worlds Series Is use Regular weekly club races as Qualifiers Or weekly grading races . When it comes to club race why not rotate the races . Say GGYC host its regular , Tuesday race at Atlantic line. Tryc host theres at dire strait Nyc at fishers fiyc at tyc, fruits, etc and so one until weve all visited each others clubs once , In any boat .class for that matter,

Ive seen a thousand voices in here and namely a few regulars Who need to step up to the plate And host some races or volunteer to help Host .Remember You dont need full rule sets if you dont want to you can hold cruises fun races knowing the basics , Leave the rules to the Partys that state in the NOR whats going to be used ,
The last rules fiasco did more harm than good!!! And people agendas to see rl rules in here i believe have chased race holders away . I know it has tell ya the truth and it has scared potential racers away .

Free Speech Taken into account. Truthfully . Why not try this There week after week racers that come race leave .leave rds and the helpers to Clean up after them and what I mean by that is there are only a hand full of us that make the course schedule the events post the calendars send the notices .

People have to realize the huge about of behind the scenes work that goes on here Now im not complaining because I love racing and will do it for that reason alone ,
It would only benefit us all to rotate our races Visit each others areas . It benefit the sailors by learning new waters It would benefit each club and it would help educate new sailors to get there feet wet ,
I think in past to much was beheld on the rd position as some sort privileged position let me tell ya folks in rl we grab any one who has the time in our youth programs at the club , You learn by doing you learn by sharing you learn and grow by Participating ,You can talk all you want in here until you actually go out start holding races participating in them asking questions at the line after after the race , Making charts Its all just pixel ink
.
So I put forth this challenge the GGYCSL will start the rotation by beginning this Sunday, that right this Sunday and hold its wildcat grading race From Fiyc Arabian line. At 11:30 sharp so as not to run into the LCC cruise . that seems to overlap into this event ever week . so well start a half an hour early. that means 11;30 to 1:00 .
Ill post the charts today . Join in be a part of the Sail community not just a racer. and on that not not just a Rd . Im sure theres plenty rds like to be able to race . Dont you . Hold a race all the lines in Sl are public folks you dont have be affiliated with one club to hold one . Support as many races as you can dont just race at one club race at them all, join them all the more the merrier. :) Don
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Re: Club Weeklies vs BIG FAT HUGE CUP EVENTS

Postby Orca Flotta » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:22 am

@ Bea: Looking forward to your response. I know you're a deep thinker.

@ Liv: Yes dear, I had one of our last convos in mind when I posted my question. Everybody has ideas, they come cheaper by the dozen. And everybody has good excuses as well, as why they are so sorry but they can't host this and that event by themselves. Your solution makes sense. Instead of trying to run 4 weekyl events I should lay all my eggs in one basket. But which one? And in which slot? See, I didn't start all 5 TrYC events with the purpose to host them all myself, I hoped for a little team of activists to fill these slots with some lively fun events. So far I'm still sitting on 4 races that I must RD myself.
As for the builders getting involved into promo and support of their own creations ... hm, have you ever seen that happen in RL sailing? So, what is a builder to do? Applying for an RD job at all yacht clubs and starting dedicated races? Spend lotsa money on prizes? Liv, SL builders are often not the most socialite people, same as most event hosts are not professional builders. These activities need very contradicting skill sets. As the example Mothgirl has shown us, many builders are not even any good in promoting their own product.

@ Don: Rotaing events is one idea but I can't see how it's going to help. Most of us have a favourite boat class and a favourite area to race in. Take for example the purely fictional little Orca: she doesn't like huge, awkward boats and she tends to get lost on Blake Sea race courses. So she won't attend any ACA races from Atlantic, Pacific and Arabian lines. Whatever poor sod is on duty starting the countdown, or what club he or she is doing it for, is not of any importance for her. So even if little Orca loves her Auntie Gemma, if said Auntie calls for an ACA race from Atlantic Orca won't show. Even if Gemma would announce a nifty class, say the Q-2M, it's still the wrong area for little Orca. Result: a no show.
Short: I can't see a rush of more active racers coming in by just swapping RDs, boats and courses around. The only result I can imagine coming out of that would be more confused sailors and a totally mangled SLSA calendar.
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Re: Club Weeklies vs BIG FAT HUGE CUP EVENTS

Postby Don Berithos » Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:01 am

I noted any boat class and focusing on the newer boats . We dont race the aca anymore mostly for just that reason It s to club specific ,
How do we get people involved if you your self wont at least try new things obviouly form your answers here the old way isnt working .

As far as the calandars involved In world notices would be the main way of doing this and perhaps posting a Schedule , of the line round robins here,
The simple appication or applying to be A race directer come on Any member of and club or non member is what we need to happen , Trying to tie up the limited rd that are now availiable is not only selfish But would seem to send a message you only want race at your club and your club only . And thats the problem here,
Alienating RD making them Anchoring them to one club isnts helping SL sailing at all , . Why plan Five weekly events if you dont have the rds ? Bit of calander loading if you ask me. I dont have to tell ya getting one good weekly event hard enough , I think we should give it try why not? What can it hurt . We just got done with a around the grid Series Sailors became aware of new waters and courses , I think it work to all or advantages to continue it . Well my offer still stands and we will be Racing wildcats from the Ariabian This week .Sunday 11:30 sharp chart will be post today .

But to say its because it effects. You because its not your cup of tea , Or because you get lost or dont like an area isnt really helping to the Improve.or promote. if you wont at least try , Your speed trails used to draw alot people to fisher line .All one needs is to have sets of clubs maps in a giver at there club . And the rest will take care of its self . Make the resoures more availble . All the lines are there waiting . I thing a little adventure be just what the doctors orders . Why race some where ever week and get beat by the same two people every week this gives others a fighting chance also , Without cooperating Clubs its gona become a click and the same daily clicks will be formed and well get nowhere.
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Re: Club Weeklies vs BIG FAT HUGE CUP EVENTS

Postby Orca Flotta » Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:27 am

As far as I understood your post you ...

1) think I'm trying to bind RDs to "my" club?
That is wrong. I don't have any RDs to tie up and those few I got didn't show any intention yet to take their business elsewhere. Same applies for me. Instead of trying to host a race in Blake, why not leaving it to the locals who happen to know their courses much better. My time in SL is rather limited, same as most others, and time I wanna spend for virtual sailing is even less. So where do you expect do we take the time to learn all the new courses and the money to buy all the new boats? Many people just spent 1000L on the WildCat, do you expect them to buy even more new boats anytime soon?

2) say that ACA races are too club-specific?
AFAIK there are a bunch of ACA races happening from different lines and hosted by different clubs.

3) deem me as unadventuours for not engaging in even more activities, while at the same time saying I'm having too many events going?
No comment.

4) The SLSA calendar is, believe it or not, not the main tool of communication but an insider tool for RDs not to overlap their events. It's very helpful for that. Of course the single race announcents are made in world via club notices to SLSA and host club. We do that since umpteen years, and I'm not responsible for it. If you have a niftier method of communicating a race please go ahead, let's discuss it. That's what I opened this thread for.

5) What offer are you speaking of?

6) racing the WWildCat SC-35 won't help in the long run. In a few weeks it willl be substituted by the next big thing ... oh, speaking of which, wildcat races at 12 in bingo, need to run ............................
Last edited by Orca Flotta on Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Club Weeklies vs BIG FAT HUGE CUP EVENTS

Postby Roan Blackburn » Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:32 am

Wow, Don, I think that's a great idea - rotating around to different areas - and not just 'cause I'm sweet on you. :D

I don't race much, but I do manage the line and the results at Fedallah a lot and know the courses there with my eyes shut.

I hope this gets some backing. I'd love to learn the lines and courses in other areas.

See you at Arabian,

Roan
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Re: Club Weeklies vs BIG FAT HUGE CUP EVENTS

Postby Liv Leigh » Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:09 pm

@Orca: Mothgirl is actually an example of a builder very well aware of the value of promotion and also a good example of someone who used the channels at her disposal to promote her work.

This being said: I don't blame the boat builders, I am simply drawing out the situation I am in. I can make plans and have all kinds of ambitions to organise racing events. The simple truth is that it is hardly possible to find people who even want to run the few ones that are being held at the moment. Until more sailors learn that a 'community' exists by the grace of people who are willing to put in some effort, it will all simply remain as marginal as it is.

Me running 2 events 'only' has a simple reason: I've been doing this for a long long time and with the club growing the nr. of additional jobs at the club grows too. 2 events is the upper limit I wish to do myself. At present this turns out to be 50% of the TYC racing events.. Given the size of our group (I believe we even have 24 'race director' tagged people), I can see there is a lot of room for improvement there.
Unlike some others I am not inclined though to hunt after people all the time and try to get them to do races for us. I want motivated people, who can run their events themselves. Not people who 'have ideas' or 'suggestions', not those I need to babysit 24/7, but people who can actually get something done. I typically select them like this:
A- "I have this great idea for a race.."
B- "Send me a notecard, with the concept, time, date and boat class and I'll help you get started."
If I then never hear from them again, I have no issues concluding that they were not motivated enough in the first place to get an event scheduled and keep it going.
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Re: Club Weeklies vs BIG FAT HUGE CUP EVENTS

Postby Don Berithos » Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:05 pm

@liv you know I tied to reply to this Person in A serious manner there is No point any thing you put here she going take a shot gun to it .
If she has all the answers already why waist our time . If its not Orca approved your out luck basically is what shes saying here What aload crap .
Anone who is actually interested in Sharing races or Swapping lines etc let me know . So this isnt a complete waist of our times , Always a loaded gun with this broad .
This Sunday the wildcats grading race will be At Arabian line . Next Sunday will be Saracusa . Yes Orca post races on boards in front of your club a Calander board a slsa calandar board,
You dont need a calander to move your race to another line ,
Lets try it she can stay were she is . in the past .
@Oraca About Moth girl . Was one first to give her boat away here free everwhere and its sailing engine probly the best in secondlife still . For the seasoned sailor. How you could us her as an poor race rd example is shocking and down right suicidal. Build your own boat and how much time you have to promote it or even sail it youll see. Hell most boat builders dont even race, I know renemarine came out in support when we launched the Vcc even though she didnt race ever in her life . At least she tryed . Other boat builders have supported cup races as well with support and Prizes. Cigar yachts being one . Surfwidow donating Her time for SLVT . Im sure im missing tons here and yes even ACA donating the a boat .
boat builders are boat builders Sailors are Sailors and racers are racers some wanting to become boat builders some wantinh to become racers . But not alot wanting to become rds. And one the main reasons is Politics So if you drop the politicss And just race hold a race hold a cruise i Think that be the starting point .
Not having to find a club that approves you . Or person. If you can Sail a boat in sl You can hold a race its really that simple. And it Can be loads of fun .
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Re: Club Weeklies vs BIG FAT HUGE CUP EVENTS

Postby Jane Fossett » Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:07 pm

I think the Second Life Sailing community is both large and diverse.
There are opportunities to organize or attend a wide variety of sailing events;
The variety is only limited by sailors' individual and collective interest, energy, and imagination.

I've done a bunch of things here, mostly working on other people's projects.
I've been in SLSailing for nearly four and a half years.
I've organized only two Sailing Regattas, and they were fifteen months apart.
Both times I was amazed at the intelligence, humor, and
endurance of all the great sailors who jumped in to compete,
and the many people who helped me organize it.

Any sailor who signed up for the recent ONE WORLD Regatta became part of a Team, and
each ONE WORLD Team could sail as few as four races total. In fact,
any individual sailor could be part of a winning Team, even if they never raced.
It was up to them; most chose to sail every weekend.

Many, many people participated in ONE WORLD, and there were huge numbers of spectators.
However, it was just one Regatta; I would never argue that any Race Director needs to follow the same format.
God forbid: they should just do whatever they want, and hopefully they'll have fun!

Regarding the impact of large regattas on weekly races....
Between J-CLASSIC and ONE WORLD I ran "Open" races in two weekly time slots.
I picked the time slots because they were the worst ones imaginable; :-)
they were the times nobody wanted, and that was ok with me.

We had twenty-one boats in one race, and nearly overloaded the sims in several others.
On many other occasions we only had one or two handfuls of boats... but so what?
It was all fun, and often hugely silly...
but it was time spent with good friends... GREAT friends. :-)

So, please... What was the question again?
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Re: Club Weeklies vs BIG FAT HUGE CUP EVENTS

Postby Orca Flotta » Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:09 pm

@ Don: As so often you completely misunderstood me. I didn't say Moth was a bad RD, I used her as an example of why builders are often failures to promote their own boats. So basically what I said was she did bad PR. What Liv said is actually true, she used all available channels, so technically she did right ... but with her pretty warped mindset she made more enemies than neccesary. Trying to stuff her product down our throats doesn't sit too well with most sailors. If she had a professional PR counsellor, they would have taken Moth out of the ring. Fact is, she did more harm than good to her perfect product. All the other points you tried to tell me about her and the Fizz I know quite well, so no need to blabber on about irrelevant stuff and thereby missing the point.
I wanted this thread to be about the future of sailboat racing, not about politics.
Yes, in your first post you tried to "reply in a serious manner". I recognized that and mulled over your idea. And in the same serious manner I replied to you that I don't think it will work. Normal discussion up to that point. But instead of coming up with some counter arguments you dedided to turn the discussion into a mudslinging dirty fight. Complete with personal attacks and the whole arsenal of cheap tricks. The other day someone asked me if I think you are an alt of Mothgirl. LOL. I said no because Moth is not american and also she can comunicate clearly in written english. So we didn't need to think about her posts to figure out if they are insulting or not. She was much more openly aggressive than you.

Your point about the SLSA calendar, sorry, I don't get it. We all know you're not a friend of the SLSA, that's your problem, not mine. Why are you always falling back onto the same old fight with MTW/SLSA? Please allow me to use the SLSA calendar as my main planning tool when I try to find an empty slot for some event. That calendar is the last thin blanket of civilisation in the sailing community to save us from anarchy and barbarism. Try to work around it, try to fight the system, do your own thing. Go ahead and try. But when I see you stepping on my feet, mingling with my business, accusing me wrongly, trying to deflect focus away from the real problem .. and when you call me 'broad' once again I will indeed take a shotgun at you. ..... ugh no, I won't. Alone the shotgun metaphor is much too cheap. And I'm not going to sacrifice my pacifistic mindset on your altar. Do what you want, I won't sink down to your level of blandness.

Hey, I indeed I found a kinda recognisable argument in your post. Let's go in medias res, shall we:
boat builders are boat builders Sailors are Sailors and racers are racers some wanting to become boat builders some wantinh to become racers . But not alot wanting to become rds. And one the main reasons is Politics So if you drop the politicss And just race hold a race hold a cruise i Think that be the starting point .
Not having to find a club that approves you . Or person. If you can Sail a boat in sl You can hold a race its really that simple. And it Can be loads of fun .

First we got to make the distinction here between pure Race Directors vs pure Club Managers/Commodores/Owners vs the mixed form of Club Official and RD in personalunion. Of course, since we're not sailing in mostly privately owned waters anymore, it could indeed be very simple to organize and host your own race independently: Just do it! You don't need a club backing you up, you can shit on the calendar, forget about the SLSA and all the stupid politics, you don't need any social skills, or manners for that part ... Well, stop my friend, not so fast! There are some problems waiting for you:

1) Where are you going to announce your race without permission to send notices in any group?
2) Too bad you can't even send group IM since as a totally independent RD you refuse to join any YC in order to avoid those stinking politics.
3) How do you expect anyone to attend your independent event if a scheduled race is happening at the same time?
4) How do you think other RDs are gonna react to your invasion of their timeslots?
5) How do you think the raceline and course markers came into existence in public waters in the first place? Yes, the same tools you're about to ride piggyback on. How did they end up there?

The answer is short and sweet: Politics. Politics as done by club officials, for the benefit of RDs and members. The sailing world has become much more complex since the USS got connected to the main grid, so some politics are inevitable. And no childish temper tantrum will get you sorted out in some magical way.



@ Roan: Believe it or not, I too wish the line swapping idea will get some backing. It might work. I don't think so, for the reasons already stated, but it will take a few months of racing in that mode to see any results worthy of reaching a conclusion.
Also this thread isn't a promotion tool for don's new idea but has a slightly different reason. It's more basic: first we've gotta figure out what kind of events the sailors expect from the YCs, only then we can think of actions and start some test balloons. And no matter what RD sits on what line, it wil still be the same boat and the same course. Short: it will be a weekly clubrace.



@ Jane: Yes, thank you. So, if this was a poll you'd be on the huge events side. Noted and registered. But this isn't supposed to be a poll, just trying to find a general mood. Figure out what's going on in the community.

Regarding your open ocean races: no, they weren't in the worst timeslots. Maybe inconvenient for you but not generally bad. if I remember correctly I attended once or twice when I had time or my connection allowed for sailing. But I was mostly online during that timeslot, like many other people. So they couldn't have been such bad slots.

But that was a different time and age, the comunity wasn't as tired as it is now. Try to hold the same races again now and you'll see. You regard one or two handful of boats as bad attendence? These days you'd be happy to even have one handful. Also holding your own race doesn't hit the other side of the problem: try to find anyone to take over from you, try to find new RDs to start stuff ...

Oh my, that point I totally forgot to mention in my OP, it's a favourite of Liv and me: Many people with ideas but no people to see them through.



@ Liv: So Mothgirl was such a great success? She left the forum as well as SL grid with the tail between her legs. She never tried to convince anyone of her ideas, she forced them on us. She openly insulted all the other builders and scripters and sailors but she herself couldn't take the littlest bit of criticism. She never planned to set her Fizz as a freebie boat but she did it in the end because she already knew she was about to leave SL.
I'm totally with you in all the other points.



So let me do a quick poll, even if it's unethical:

pro club races: Liv, Don, Roan - 3
pro mega events: Jane - 1
Last edited by Orca Flotta on Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Club Weeklies vs BIG FAT HUGE CUP EVENTS

Postby Don Berithos » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:57 pm

First of all my point about The SLSA CALANDER WAS POST ONE IN FRONT YOU CLUB I SAID THATS BASHING //////?/?????
Second Your tone is not respectful of Moth so yes you need to reminded,
Third filling Calander with events you have no rds for and them complaining about is babling .
Fourth Exactly whats wrong with this idea everone else Ive taked thought it was a good idea, Now you going moderate the forum you've been banned from twenty times //???
Im holdoing races in the Blake tommrrow How Is that SLSA mtw bashing /??? Lets Face it Thats what you want see and that what you constantly emit , Is negative comments , You may think your witty replys are some sort answer. In fact they don't make any sense half the time and you contradict your posts on a regular basis.
Traveling around the grid I believe will help and has been a practice by our club for sometime ,
No where have i mentioned SLSA or MTW In Fact im working with bea to get the Grading up and running for the Wildcats A boat you have trashed repeatly . As also the ACA that you trashed repeatly during the SLVT, But yet Your holding races ,
If your attitude is always going to be everones doing it wrong. Orca then why dont you show us all how to do it, Why not share all that Knowledge with us those honed Marketing skills of yours. Why dont you put them to better use.
According to You All the reggatas and cups suck none knows what there doing, and yet you ALWAYS seem to have the master plan your just not sharing with us .
Go ahead take another shot at SLVT as far as im concerned with all the negaitve behind scenes Schemes and criticism I belive it was one most successful cups ever,Especially seeing it was my first . Lots people effortly helped us and they all should be praised not belittled by you, Dont bother writing another page of denial and what I meants , You treat anyone who disagrees with you or if it isnt your idea as a target and an open invitation for your form of communication .
GGYCSL GRADING RACES AT 11:30 am SL> Sunday 3/12/2011 remeber folks were moving the clocks ahead here so take that into consideration , Below are the planned charts for tommrrow .Links because the file are to big for here,

http://igotwind.blogspot.com/p/sl-acws-charts.html
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Re: Club Weeklies vs BIG FAT HUGE CUP EVENTS

Postby Nomad Zamani » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:09 pm

Orca Flotta wrote:Your point about the SLSA calendar, sorry, I don't get it. We all know you're not a friend of the SLSA, that's your problem, not mine. Why are you always falling back onto the same old fight with MTW/SLSA?

The whole anti-SLSA/MTW/USS thing has a lot to do with it. That crap has been a festering sore in this community for as long as I can remember - it's been a major cause of rift and division. Division being a key term - a fair few yacht clubs were formed out of that, which led to a diluition of active members in all clubs. Or, to put it slightly differently, there hasn't been a sufficiently large influx of new sailors to make up the numbers. Hardly surprising when you consider the amount of petty political shit that has infested the community - I wonder how many have taken a look at some of what has passed through here and decided not to bother.

The last big one - Don's ISLSA bullshit of last year - made us look like a bunch of stupid, immature assholes. Of course, the recent one, where Don manages to announce to the entire planet that he's out to screw over the exsiting ACA community in the hope that he can dominate it as a way to get external money coming in to finance a bunch of sims, was not only more of the same, it put his whole ISLSA crap in perspective - attempt to destroy the 'established order' in the hope of taking over. Horrible, nasty, and divisive. Virtually everyone else in this community seeks to add to it - they might compete with each other at times, but their efforts are positive. Something stinks to high heaven when someone engages in what amounts to a smear campaign to create division in the hope of gaining control for themselves. Ever since Don stupidly posted his email publicly, and thus made his intentions clear, I have been absolutely disgusted with him. I am intensely annoyed that he used this forum as a platform to engage in his stinking underhand tactics. I didn't take this on and put in countless hours to run it so that some scumbag can come in and use it for that. It's here to support the community and help it to grow, not be used as a tool for destruction.

Anyway, we have more clubs, more races, and not enough people to go round. When race attendance is down, I can see why some would-be RDs might decide not to bother. There's also the regular committment thing - the idea that one has to hold an event at the same time, on the same day, every week, can be off-puttng. Maybe another reason is too many occupied slots in the calendar (although I wonder how many are legacy entries where the associated event doesn't happen any more). Ultimately, though, most people in SL are consumers - only a small percentage will actually put effort into making things happen for a community. Which takes us right back to there not being enough people - too many clubs, and people spread too thinly, means that the percentage of doers per club is low.

So, short of shutting down a few clubs to concentrate people into less of them, the answer has to be to attract new people. My personal view is that getting rid of the political garbage has to be a first step in that process - no point getting them in the door, only for them to see supposed adults fighting like children. (I completely failed to become an active member of the aviation community for precisely that reason. I wanted to engage with it, but found out how divided and political it is, and gave up - I just have better things to do with my time. Anyone wanna guess why the aviation community is a mess? You got it - money and smear campaigns.)

To address the original question, yes, I think OW had an impact on club races. I've never seen so many race cancellation notices in a couple of months or so than I saw during that regatta. If anything, this sort of event is too big - it takes up nearly a quarter of the entire year, and most other racing vapourises when it's happening. Far too dominant in terms of its impact on the normal club-level activities of the community. It should be smaller - less qualifying rounds and fewer teams. Others in the community have to have the chance to do their thing as well. Everything else shouldn't grind to a halt.
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Nomad Zamani
 
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Re: Club Weeklies vs BIG FAT HUGE CUP EVENTS

Postby Nomad Zamani » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:11 pm

Don Berithos wrote:First of all my point about The SLSA CALANDER WAS POST ONE IN FRONT YOU CLUB I SAID THATS BASHING //////?/?????
Second Your tone is not respectful of Moth so yes you need to reminded,
Third filling Calander with events you have no rds for and them complaining about is babling .
Fourth Exactly whats wrong with this idea everone else Ive taked thought it was a good idea, Now you going moderate the forum you've been banned from twenty times //???
Im holdoing races in the Blake tommrrow How Is that SLSA mtw bashing /??? Lets Face it Thats what you want see and that what you constantly emit , Is negative comments , You may think your witty replys are some sort answer. In fact they don't make any sense half the time and you contradict your posts on a regular basis.
Traveling around the grid I believe will help and has been a practice by our club for sometime ,
No where have i mentioned SLSA or MTW In Fact im working with bea to get the Grading up and running for the Wildcats A boat you have trashed repeatly . As also the ACA that you trashed repeatly during the SLVT, But yet Your holding races ,
If your attitude is always going to be everones doing it wrong. Orca then why dont you show us all how to do it, Why not share all that Knowledge with us those honed Marketing skills of yours. Why dont you put them to better use.
According to You All the reggatas and cups suck none knows what there doing, and yet you ALWAYS seem to have the master plan your just not sharing with us .
Go ahead take another shot at SLVT as far as im concerned with all the negaitve behind scenes Schemes and criticism I belive it was one most successful cups ever,Especially seeing it was my first . Lots people effortly helped us and they all should be praised not belittled by you, Dont bother writing another page of denial and what I meants , You treat anyone who disagrees with you or if it isnt your idea as a target and an open invitation for your form of communication .
GGYCSL GRADING RACES AT 11:30 am SL> Sunday 3/12/2011 remeber folks were moving the clocks ahead here so take that into consideration , Below are the planned charts for tommrrow .Links because the file are to big for here,

http://igotwind.blogspot.com/p/sl-acws-charts.html


Grow the fuck up, or you're out of here.
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Nomad Zamani
 
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