Comments re: Official PROTEST HEARING: One World Cup Round 4

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Comments re: Official PROTEST HEARING: One World Cup Round 4

Postby Jane Fossett » Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:29 am

removed.
Last edited by Jane Fossett on Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Official PROTEST HEARING: One World Cup Round 4

Postby Slanty Uriza » Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:50 am

noodleqt exonar wrote:Whatever the ruling will be, it will get us all a clearer understanding of, what sailing in SL is.

You're full of crap as usual.
I don't have a clue what ruling you're refering to but that doesn't matter. Whatever ruling it will be, most people already have a clear understanding of what sailing in SL is and they had that clear understanding long before you showed your face in SL. To my understanding sailing in SL used to be fun, but now; it sucks.
Last edited by Slanty Uriza on Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Comments re: Official PROTEST HEARING: One World Cup Rou

Postby joro Aya » Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:24 am

- OW2011 pisses the vast majority of SL sailing, including many competitors.

You have researched this, have You? You have numbers that prove this? or is it just that You Yourself and some people You talked to have this opinion and You "project" Your opinion on "the vast majority"?
where You claim to speak for a vast majority, i can only speak for myself. Team Buzzz hasn't exactly been very lucky so far in the OW and at times it has been stressful, but i'm still having fun.

- the "sticky" thread has now 32 pages done, about 480 posts, and we will piss off from September to March, excluding annexes thread.

i would think that that long thread is prove that the OW is very much alive, that many people are enjoying it or at least following it closely.

- Any other activity on SL Sailing is impossible during this time, say for 7 months, more than half a year.

and yet... within this timeframe of 7 months we have had a Fizz cup and a Leetle Cat long distance race and several cruises and lots and lots of regular weekly races...

- People have been banned at the request or under the influence of Jane, some posts have been moved.

moving posts to the appropriate place in a forum is very normal and necesary work for a moderator.
when a thread is started with one particular purpose and some people think it's "fun" to fill it with little sneers and poor attemps of homor, what else is a moderator to do then delete or move those posts?
and... now Jane is responsible for the recent bans? i guess i missed something...

- No race in that event went smoothly until now. Misconduct each time. The case cited here is the least serious of all, talking about ruling misconduct.
- Now, dare to mention the Fastnet 79 in connection with this farce, is more than I can accept.
- Making this farce a model? Learning from it? Is it a joke?

in order to learn from mistakes, one must 1st make some. i guess mistakes were made, but i'm getting really sick of all the personal attacks on people who are trying their best to hold events like this.
and it's not only this event. during the last fizz cup, i heared lots of nasty remarks about the way Liv was running that. it seems a national sport in SL land to attack and badmouth organisers of sailing events.
and there is one very important similarity between this situation and the article about the Fastnet race that Jane posted.
the only way to prevent terrible things like the loss of lives during that race is to not hold ocean races again.
the only way to prevent terribly laggy and crashy races like the one that led to Liv's protest is... not to hold SL sailing events again.
if that is what You want, just come out to say so.
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Re: Comments re: Official PROTEST HEARING: One World Cup Rou

Postby joro Aya » Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:00 am

yes, i did read that article. that's part of the reason Your post was such a surprise to me.
anyway, i've said what i wanted to say. i'll stay out of this discussion now.
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Re: Comments re: Official PROTEST HEARING: One World Cup Rou

Postby Joyofrlc Acker » Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:06 am

Given the recent discussions about banning and possible censorship (deletion of posts) I think Joro's point is REALLY IMPORTANT ... moving posts (transparently) to maintain the integrity of a thread (staying on topic) is so far from banning or censorship it is bordering on the irresponsible to suggest it.
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Re: Comments re: Official PROTEST HEARING: One World Cup Rou

Postby Orca Flotta » Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:05 pm

joro Aya wrote:moving posts to the appropriate place in a forum is very normal and necesary work for a moderator.
when a thread is started with one particular purpose and some people think it's "fun" to fill it with little sneers and poor attemps of homor, what else is a moderator to do then delete or move those posts?
and... now Jane is responsible for the recent bans? i guess i missed something...

I can't and won't talk for Slanty or trying to interprete her motivation. But I can honestly say I didn't post to the thread to have fun, and I never did I have fun neither. I didn't want to, and matter of factly I didn't, abuse the forum! I criticised decisions made by the RC and was then made furious by the arrogant, holier than thou, dismissive attitude of the posts by some of the other forumites. To make it clear, so eveybody can recap it:

- Porter was insulted in Rd 1
- some ppl, incl. me, complained about the way she was treated after the race, here in forum (of course in OW2011 thread, where else?)
- most complainants where shut up and insulted again by overbearing group of sheep
- Orca didn't shut up
- consequently Orca was banned so the sheep herd and their leaders could go on with the wrongdoings

See, it's all a matter of action and reaction. Fact is the whole debate was started by the RC! Not in forum, but where it really counts, in world! And then ended by the RC (or their sock puppet) in a brutal thrift. They stiill believe in the old lie that history is written by the winner, so they unfairly and unncessarily tried to achieve an easy win by shutting up ay critical voices.


i guess mistakes were made, but i'm getting really sick of all the personal attacks on people who are trying their best to hold events like this.

Quite the contrary of what really happened. The personal attacks started in world, right after the race. And they were started by the friendly people who are trying their best to gain personality by organising events like this. What we see here in forum is a classical case of action and reaction yet again. Pretty easy to see what happened here: First they kick Orca in the face until she bleeds, and when it hurts too much, in her pain she uses foul language ... BINGO! She used foul language. So let's ban her.

if that is what You want, just come out to say so.

Your implications are wrong. There is also the way to learn from past mistakes, and not get too upset and react like little kids when you can't see them yourself but are hinted to them by others. But in regards to what's going on now, it's true, we can't have such major cup events. For a whole bunch of reasons, technically but mostly personally.

So, there, I said it.
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Re: Comments re: Official PROTEST HEARING: One World Cup Rou

Postby Liv Leigh » Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:16 pm

Ok, let me react on this and give me my view on things:

- I am confident my team could be able to make the finals. Whether we do so or not, is not so important to me. If I don't loose interest, I plan to try win a few more races with momomos, nobuko and noodleqt.
- I would have settled with a 2nd place behind Oceans 11. But I'd prefer a fair rerun in which we somehow end up 3rd or 4th, to keeping that 2nd spot.
- I hate crappy races and SL issues that get in the way of sailing.
- I hate being in crappy races even more.
- I think we need a debate on how to deal with bad situations, as they occur and also before they may occur.
- In the 6AM timeslot I had already dropped the suggestion to reschedule during one of the recalled 'races', as things were clearly not going to work in a decent way.
- that protest was just a follow-up action on it, with the extra intention I named above.
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Re: Comments re: Official PROTEST HEARING: One World Cup Rou

Postby Kentrock Messmer » Thu Feb 03, 2011 5:12 pm

Races are planed for well in advance. Like RL many people who made arrangements to sail or work on the RC staff simply can not be at a rescheduled race. Therefore to be fair you would need to abandon the entire Round. Not just one race in the regatta.
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Re: Comments re: Official PROTEST HEARING: One World Cup Rou

Postby Alain Gloster » Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:14 pm

Kentrock Messmer wrote:Races are planed for well in advance. Like RL many people who made arrangements to sail or work on the RC staff simply can not be at a rescheduled race. Therefore to be fair you would need to abandon the entire Round. Not just one race in the regatta.


The other way is to firewall off each timeslot. Each individual timeslot is consdered a seperate "heat" and the final winner of each heat afer 8 races goes to the finals. Actually I think thats the only way to be viable becasue I was thinking the other day..what could be considered redress in this case if scores for seperate timeslots are compared? How do you you redress an internal race order of the 6AM heat and not have other timeslots ask for redress if they are disadvantaged by the ruling? And how does a RD exactly judge an issue with repect to the fleet as a whole if half of the fleet hasn't sailed yet?
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Re: Comments re: Official PROTEST HEARING: One World Cup Rou

Postby Orca Flotta » Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:21 am

Alain Gloster wrote:And how does a RD exactly judge an issue with repect to the fleet as a whole if half of the fleet hasn't sailed yet?


The RD didn't. That simple. The RD found the weather conditions after the 2nd general recall became much better. The RD decided for a 3rd start and was proven correct as we witnessed a good race with valid results. And as Kent already pointed out, to abandon the whole raceday already that early in the morning would've been a very premature decision with a long long tail of additional work afterwards to get it all organized again. In my eyes it was simply not possible to abandon the whole machine just because one small gear malfunctioned.
Was it optimal? No, but it was the best solution at the time.
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Re: Comments re: Official PROTEST HEARING: One World Cup Rou

Postby Alain Gloster » Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:26 am

Precicely my point
also in a regatta with 4 throwouts whats the point of one bad days sailing.
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Re: Comments re: Official PROTEST HEARING: One World Cup Rou

Postby noodleqt exonar » Fri Feb 04, 2011 2:49 am

The point is, we disagree on what sailing and racing is.
Some say "Woohooo, we finally have a result after more than two hours of struggling with computers".
Others say "Yuck, after two hours of computer problems we realize, this was not a boat race".
In pursuit of realism... http://noodleqt.blogspot.com
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Re: Comments re: Official PROTEST HEARING: One World Cup Rou

Postby Liv Leigh » Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:19 am

If you would google around a little bit, you would find at least one RL case of a World Championship where a semifinal was abandoned due to bad weather and never sailed over again. The semifinalists were all added to the finals fleet. You can call this unfair I suppose.

It is part of the process. Decisions are made, good or bad ones. We learn and move on. By creating drama, people merely show their unwillingness to accept the facts and work with them.
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Re: Comments re: Official PROTEST HEARING: One World Cup Rou

Postby Kentrock Messmer » Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:55 am

So just what did we learn Liv? The definition of a race? Have we defined the bad weather limits of when a RC must abandon a race? Or did we just put a very bad taste in the mouth of the majority of the sailing community that was having a lot of fun and working their buts off to sail fast in the conditions they were faced with on race day. Not to mention the host clubs that spent months on planning and spent a lot of time and money to make sure everyone would have a good time.
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Re: Comments re: Official PROTEST HEARING: One World Cup Rou

Postby Caitlyn » Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:22 am

I learned that if you invite your friends to watch a sailing event, leave immediately after the first boat crosses the line. Don't delay ... don't loiter.

You can just tell your friend that the boat that crossed the line first, actually won the race. They won't know any different.
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