Official PROTEST HEARING: One World Cup Round 4

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Re: Official PROTEST HEARING: One World Cup Round 4

Postby Slanty Uriza » Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:21 am

Orca Flotta wrote:.......please just take a look at the photo of the protest hearing with a dozen or so avies hovering above the water. :lol:

I'm pretty sure they would do that in RL too if one of the ISAF rules didn't forbid it :twisted:
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Re: Official PROTEST HEARING: One World Cup Round 4

Postby noodleqt exonar » Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:54 am

I am trying to figure out precisely what rules apply here. Yes, ISAF rules. I got that ;-)

Found this on Janes site: (Link at the top of the site)
http://metaversesailing.wordpress.com/one-world-rules/

However, it says draft. Is there a newer version? It is important, because it says two-boatlengths used in resolving rule 18 issues, where one would expect a three boatlength-zone. There might other differences in the final document.

Please provide a link to the rules under which we sail.

Cheers,
Noodle


PS: Orca, do you mean to say that you really can't fly?
PPS: Well, never mind... this is about sailing.
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ONE WORLD Rules

Postby Jane Fossett » Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:40 am

The most current rules doc was included in the Friday Update notecard given to all in the Regatta Group.
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Re: Official PROTEST HEARING: One World Cup Round 4

Postby Jane Fossett » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:09 am

noodleqt exonar wrote: Janes site... says two-boatlengths used in resolving rule 18 issues, where one would expect a three boatlength-zone.
There might other differences in the final document.

Under Rule 86.1(b), the "three boatlength zone" can be changed
to either two or four hull lengths at the option of the Race Committee.
After looking at the size of the boat and the spaces at marks and gates,
a 'two hull length' zone was considered most appropriate for ONE WORLD.
It applies to all Rounds.
This issue isn't a factor in the current protest, however.

86 CHANGES TO THE RACING RULES
86.1 A racing rule shall not be changed unless permitted in the rule itself
or as follows:
...
(b) Sailing instructions may change a racing rule, but not rule 76.1,
Appendix F, or a rule listed in rule 86.1(a). However, the sailing
instructions may change to ‘two’ or ‘four’ the number of
hull lengths determining the zone around marks, provided that
the number is the same for all marks and all boats using those
marks.
If the sailing instructions change a rule or that definition,
they shall refer specifically to the rule or definition and
state the change.
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Re: Official PROTEST HEARING: One World Cup Round 4

Postby noodleqt exonar » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:48 am

Very true. This is not about rule 18.
I just mentioned the change to rule 18 as a justification of my request for an updated version of the OW rules.
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Re: ONE WORLD Rules

Postby MarkTwain White » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:55 am

Jane Fossett wrote:The most current rules doc was included in the Friday Update notecard given to all in the Regatta Group.


Please provide me with a copy of that. Thanks. :)
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Round Four Update Info

Postby Jane Fossett » Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:33 am

The "ONE WORLD - TRIUMPHAL - JAN 28-30 - Friday Update" Notecard was distributed to all in the OW Group;
it also went to anyone who clicked any version of the Networked ONE WORLD posters.
I've given MTW a copy in-world, and posted a partial text version of that notecard here as well, for convenience.
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Re: Official PROTEST HEARING: One World Cup Round 4

Postby Orca Flotta » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:55 am

noodleqt exonar wrote:PS: Orca, do you mean to say that you really can't fly?


Well, I can fly, alright.
But only when nobody's around, staring at me ... and unfortunately only after the consumption of seriously illegal substances.

And since I'm a forum abuser but no drug abuser, no, I really can't fly like all the cool kids do. :cry:
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Re: Official PROTEST HEARING: One World Cup Round 4

Postby MarkTwain White » Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:49 pm

While the prior two posts to this thread (from Jane and Bea) are facinating, they are off topic and not germaine to the purpose of this topic which is solely to hear evidence regarding a protest of the race committee's ruling in round four of the One World Cup. I will sent a note to the forum moderator and ask him to put those two posts in a separate topic.

I ask again that posts to this thread stay on topic. You are more than welcome to start side topics.
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Re: Official PROTEST HEARING: One World Cup Round 4

Postby noodleqt exonar » Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:51 pm

Jane, no need to be confused. It is not uncommon to protest an entire heat or race in a series of races due to bad conditions or procedure errors. 32.1e was only mentioned to reassert that it is in fact possible to cancel a race. No rules tell the RD when to cancel. It is a matter of judgement. Some of us feel this particular race was over the edge. Whatever the ruling will be, it will get us all a clearer understanding of, what sailing in SL is.

:-)
Noodle

PS: Ok, the Fastnet reference was perhaps overdoing it a bit :-D
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Re: Official PROTEST HEARING: One World Cup Round 4

Postby Admin » Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:50 pm

MarkTwain White wrote:While the prior two posts to this thread (from Jane and Bea) are facinating, they are off topic and not germaine to the purpose of this topic which is solely to hear evidence regarding a protest of the race committee's ruling in round four of the One World Cup. I will sent a note to the forum moderator and ask him to put those two posts in a separate topic.

I ask again that posts to this thread stay on topic. You are more than welcome to start side topics.

Posts moved as requested. New thread title is as follows...

Comments re: Official PROTEST HEARING: One World Cup Round 4
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Re: Official PROTEST HEARING: One World Cup Round 4

Postby Jane Fossett » Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:08 pm

Admin wrote:
MarkTwain White wrote:While the prior two posts to this thread (from Jane and Bea) are facinating, they are off topic and not germaine to the purpose of this topic which is solely to hear evidence regarding a protest of the race committee's ruling in round four of the One World Cup. I will sent a note to the forum moderator and ask him to put those two posts in a separate topic.
I ask again that posts to this thread stay on topic. You are more than welcome to start side topics.

Posts moved as requested. New thread title is as follows...
Comments re: Official PROTEST HEARING: One World Cup Round 4

<--Accepts that ruling and
uncharacteristically sits down
and stays quiet. :-)
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Re: Official PROTEST HEARING: One World Cup Round 4

Postby Bea Woodget » Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:23 pm

Jane Fossett wrote:
Admin wrote:
MarkTwain White wrote:While the prior two posts to this thread (from Jane and Bea) are facinating, they are off topic and not germaine to the purpose of this topic which is solely to hear evidence regarding a protest of the race committee's ruling in round four of the One World Cup. I will sent a note to the forum moderator and ask him to put those two posts in a separate topic.
I ask again that posts to this thread stay on topic. You are more than welcome to start side topics.

Posts moved as requested. New thread title is as follows...
Comments re: Official PROTEST HEARING: One World Cup Round 4

<--Accepts that ruling and
uncharacteristically sits down
and stays quiet. :-)

I had been surprised that you are not happy about this move ...
A leopard cannot change its spots.
It is only the third time that posts are moved and people banished upon the request of the OW staff.
Go on, you can still do better I think.
And what if I tell you that some of my posts, doesn't reflect a critical side, but a perfectionist side, that I can not stand mediocrity when one could do great things even easier. Do I deserve a spanking? Do not say "yes!" or assume...
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Re: Official PROTEST HEARING: One World Cup Round 4

Postby Slanty Uriza » Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:59 am

MarkTwain White wrote:While the prior two posts to this thread (from Jane and Bea) are facinating, they are off topic and not germaine to the purpose of this topic which is solely to hear evidence regarding a protest of the race committee's ruling in round four of the One World Cup. I will sent a note to the forum moderator and ask him to put those two posts in a separate topic.

I ask again that posts to this thread stay on topic. You are more than welcome to start side topics.

I'm amazed! Isn't it possible to take this stuff inworld, talk about it for 15 minutes and rule?
I am Slanty and I am protesting against this protest hearing!
Slanty Uriza
 

Re: Official PROTEST HEARING: One World Cup Round 4

Postby noodleqt exonar » Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:18 am

Has the process of this appeal stopped?

In RL an appeal is usually based on the facts already established by the protest commity. However, we never really had that questions and answers session, so facts are yet to be established. The jury ruled immediately based on their own feelings and experiences.

So how are we to proceed. I ask this because I don't see any progress or process ownership here.

If we are to have Q and A's to establish facts, and I think it would be very appropriate given the fact that we haven't had that yet, then this is my prespective on the process from here:

As a wittness I cannot comment upon specific issues until I am asked about them. The process should be run by the director of the board asking questions to uncover the facts of the situation. First the protesting part is questioned, then the RD is questioned, and finally the wittnesses are questioned to clarify any uncertainties.

When the board feels the facts are established, the members of the board discuss things in private, after which they come up with a ruling.

Slanty is right, - it is amazing... only it might require a half hour instead of fifteen minutes.

Have a great day,
Noodle
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