Sim Crossings

The place for discussions about SL and RL sailing, grid-happenings, and other topics of general interest.

Sim Crossings

Postby Nber Medici » Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:40 pm

Given the new postings to SVC-472 on the JIRA... I decided to give it a shot and raise the issue at the Simulator User Group. Below is an unexpurgated chat log:

[11:58 AM] Arawn Graalrd [Arawn Spitteler]: We have a linden
[11:58 AM] Simon Linden: Hi - welcome to the cancelled server user group :)
[11:58 AM] Arawn Graalrd [Arawn Spitteler]: Hi, Simon
[11:58 AM] Vincent Nacon: guess that "secret" meeting got canceled?
[11:59 AM] Nber Medici: Hi Simon
[11:59 AM] Simon Linden: no, I'm actually home due to sickness
[11:59 AM] Nber Medici: :(
[11:59 AM] Vincent Nacon: ah
[11:59 AM] Arawn Graalrd [Arawn Spitteler]: In a Transparent Corporation, to we post transcripts from secret meetings?
[11:59 AM] Vincent Nacon: get to bed!
[11:59 AM] Simon Linden: I thought infecting the entire team would not be a good idea
[12:00 PM] ANSI [ANSI Soderstrom]: hi all
[12:00 PM] Vincent Nacon: go to bed and get someone to make you a soup
[12:00 PM] Meeter: Welcome to the Server User Group
[12:00 PM] Liisa Runo: hiyas
[12:00 PM] IM: Chair: Press Page Up to move chair up, or Page Down to move chair down
[12:01 PM] Simon Linden: well, I'm just sitting at the kitchen table ... this isn't very stressful, and I'm not likely to break anything doing this :)
[12:01 PM] Vincent Nacon: I guess, long as you stay warm
[12:01 PM] Gooden Uggla: *smiles*
[12:01 PM] Techwolf Lupindo: Simon, click that "retrun all object" button. ;-)
[12:01 PM] Simon Linden: it's in the upper 80s here today, so staying warm isn't a problem
[12:01 PM] Arawn Graalrd [Arawn Spitteler]: He's logged in, as a linden, if you want that global
[12:01 PM] Vincent Nacon: muhaha!
[12:02 PM] Nber Medici: I have not been to one of these meetings before... so I am not aware of the protocol.
[12:02 PM] Simon Linden: Anyway, let's see ... I haven't been following the release news much, as I was also home yesterday
[12:02 PM] Vincent Nacon: so Andrew is at the "secret" meeting I take it?
[12:02 PM] Gooden Uggla: hope you feel better simon, try to stay cool
[12:02 PM] Arawn Graalrd [Arawn Spitteler]: Upper 80s, so your wife can wear a bikini, and you can still do something about it.
[12:02 PM] Techwolf Lupindo: 98 here
[12:02 PM] Vincent Nacon: ah ok
[12:02 PM] Simon Linden: but it looks like the Bluesteel RC was promoted to the main branch
[12:03 PM] Gooden Uggla: is that andrew3's maintserve?
[12:03 PM] Simon Linden: yes, that one was a maint-server branch with some bug fixes
[12:03 PM] Gooden Uggla: cool, his channel does the least damage :)
[12:03 PM] Ardy Lay: Simon, I am being asked when parcel Privacy will be available on mainland.
[12:03 PM] Nber Medici: Does... this get used? ... User_Group
[12:04 PM] Simon Linden: I think the most interesting addition is PRIM_OMEGA to the llSetLinkPrimParam type functions
[12:04 PM] Nber Medici: I have added an agenda item there.
[12:04 PM] Pauline Darkfury: Hi folks :)
[12:04 PM] Vincent Nacon: they don't use the wiki as much as the Mesh developers
[12:04 PM] Simon Linden: The scripting user group is an offshoot of this one, run by Kelly Linden on Monday mornings
[12:04 PM] Gooden Uggla: 9am SLT
[12:04 PM] Simon Linden: There's a fair amoun of overlap, but he focuses on LSL and scripting
[12:05 PM] Nber Medici: THIS user group is simulator issues?
[12:05 PM] Vincent Nacon: more or less
[12:05 PM] Simon Linden: The "parcel privacy" feature, which isn't called that now, I think it's "show avatars", _should_ be in one of the RC channels tomorrow
[12:05 PM] Gooden Uggla: what's your issue Nber?
[12:05 PM] Simon Linden: Yes Nber, this is for general server issues
[12:06 PM] Nber Medici: SVC 472 and derivittive issues
[12:06 PM] Nber Medici: essentially sim crossings failure
[12:06 PM] Ardy Lay: Simon, thanks.
[12:06 PM] Arawn Graalrd [Arawn Spitteler]: We've always been more what the server lindens take an interest in, like Aviation or such.
[12:06 PM] Simon Linden: The other welcome fix in the roll this morning is for SVC-6905
[12:06 PM] JIRA-helper:
[#SVC-6905] Immortal prims: Objects resisting take, delete, return, and autoreturn
[12:06 PM] Gooden Uggla: Nber you realize that most TP and crossing handoff failures are the result of the avatar being overscripted, right?
[12:07 PM] Simon Linden: I'm not sure what is going into the other RC channels ... I'm sure one will be mesh related, but I'm not sure about the other
[12:07 PM] Nber Medici: Yes...I know that is what people say... but I don't think it is correct.
[12:07 PM] Pauline Darkfury: I'd guess that "mesh-prep" will be making a return if they have managed to de-crashy it
[12:07 PM] Gooden Uggla: you can test it by reducing your memory footprint and active script time and testing again
[12:07 PM] Arawn Graalrd [Arawn Spitteler]: You get a four corner crossing, and scripts won't matter, unless things have improved.
[12:08 PM] Simon Linden: yes, they had some bad crashes related to multi-threading. They discovered some things they were doing weren't thread safe
[12:08 PM] Gooden Uggla: simon that's good news indeed
[12:08 PM] Gooden Uggla: that's even nmore annoying that ghosties
[12:08 PM] Gooden Uggla: than*
[12:09 PM] Pauline Darkfury: Is there likely to be something coming to one of the RCs that might solve the horrible performance introduced with the Mono 2 roll?
[12:09 PM] Simon Linden: yeah, that was an interesting bug. It was surprisingly easy to fix, once I figured out what was going on, but it sure was annoying when it happened
[12:09 PM] Simon Linden: I had a box here that got stuck
[12:09 PM] Simon Linden: Pauline - Kelly has been tweaking a lot of the script performance parameters, trying to get a good balance
[12:09 PM] Simon Linden: DId you mean script performance?
[12:10 PM] Techwolf Lupindo: I remember some prims I deleted off a regine and they keep comming back, took about two weeks to get rid of them.
[12:10 PM] Pauline Darkfury: Well, it's very likely related to scripts, but I've got a C5 full that goes into meltdown for a while, then recovers, then repeats
[12:10 PM] Vincent Nacon: heya Obscure
[12:10 PM] oobscure [Opensource Obscure] waves
[12:10 PM] Pauline Darkfury: It looks kinda like a major flaw in the changes made to the scheduler
[12:11 PM] Gooden Uggla: pauline all you can do is restart and hope for a better host
[12:11 PM] Pauline Darkfury: I'm far from alone with that
[12:11 PM] Simon Linden: hmm, that might be another issue ... I know one engineer was looking into a problem where regions would regularly have 5 minutes of bad performance every hour
[12:11 PM] Pauline Darkfury: Yeah, hard to put an exact duration & frequency on it, but it could be something like that
[12:11 PM] Simon Linden: I think that was on the class 7 hosts, however
[12:11 PM] Ardy Lay: Simulator state save interval?
[12:11 PM] Qie [Qie Niangao]: Meeroo feeding time? :p
[12:11 PM] Gooden Uggla: simon that condition is common now, sometiumes more than 5 minutes
[12:11 PM] Simon Linden: well, we think it might be related to saves
[12:12 PM] Gooden Uggla: wait... server snapshots is causing that?
[12:12 PM] Simon Linden: I'm a bit behind on the news, having stayed home yesterday and today
[12:12 PM] Gooden Uggla: that would explain a lot actually
[12:13 PM] Pauline Darkfury: There's 2 major problems outstanding from the Mono 2 roll for me. 1 is that Top Scripts is no longer accurate on lightly loaded regions (times are 3-4x higher than expected, but seems to be a measuring/reporting issue, not a perf issue), and full regions going into extreme lag for a period, then being fine (with no obvious change in the character of the load on them between terrible and ok)
[12:13 PM] Simon Linden: There's a theory that NUMA ( was getting into a swap state ... there are reports that the version of linux we use can get into an ugly situation sometimes on heavliy loaded machines
[12:13 PM] Gooden Uggla: pauline kelly did say that the changes would make top scripts less reliable
[12:14 PM] Gooden Uggla: the cumulative percentage part was changed
[12:14 PM] Simon Linden: I know Kelly was looking at the script stats numbers and cleaning that up, I'm pretty sure the code you have now is obsolete
[12:14 PM] F L I P [Flip Idlemind]: Hey guize...didn't think anyone would be here today
[12:14 PM] Simon Linden: We're not here, it's a non-meeting :)
[12:14 PM] F L I P [Flip Idlemind]: Aha
[12:14 PM] Gooden Uggla: hi flip, we're having our own secret meeting
[12:15 PM] Vincent Nacon: Simon is sick and at home, in his kitchen, go figure. :P
[12:15 PM] F L I P [Flip Idlemind]: Great
[12:15 PM] Pauline Darkfury: Yup, something isn't right with them. They are ok for relative comparison within a single region, but are meaningless for comparing scripts in different regions at present. I.e. you can tell if object A is heavier than object B, but that's about all
[12:15 PM] F L I P [Flip Idlemind]: I mean uh
[12:15 PM] F L I P [Flip Idlemind]: Sorry about that
[12:15 PM] Simon Linden: I had to miss the secret meeting due to saying home ill, and since I'm totally bored, thought I'd drop in and see if anyone showed up
[12:15 PM] Ardy Lay: This isn't a meeting. It's a gathering of people that didn't get the meeting cancellation memo.
[12:15 PM] Gooden Uggla: yes pauline, and we were warned about that
[12:15 PM] Pauline Darkfury: Unfortunately, some EMs are taking the numbers as valid in absolute terms, and unfairly banning or harassing people based on bad data :(
[12:16 PM] Gooden Uggla: i can't remember which meeting, but kelly definitely said top scripts would become useless to measure
[12:16 PM] Vincent Nacon: quite right
[12:16 PM] Techwolf Lupindo: You need to upgrade the servers off of debian etch. That OS is sooooo old....
[12:16 PM] Simon Linden: Nber - for SVC-472, there are probably a lot of different things involved
[12:17 PM] JIRA-helper:
[#SVC-472] Region Crossings Fail
[12:17 PM] Ardy Lay: Yes it is old, and we all know that OSs degrade over time. ;-)
[12:17 PM] Nber Medici: I understand that... but some recognition that there is something being looked at would be good
[12:17 PM] Simon Linden: There is one engineer looking at region crossings now, and we have some ideas on improving it, but there isn't likely to be a quick, major fix
[12:17 PM] Gooden Uggla: pauline i've been thinking about that, maybe topscripts could be made to measure the number of scripts in an object and whether it has mono
[12:17 PM] Nber Medici: Sailors KNOW to reduce scripts
[12:18 PM] Arawn Graalrd [Arawn Spitteler]: Is svc-22 still an issue?
[12:18 PM] JIRA-helper:
[#SVC-22] Vehicles crossing region borders aren't always treated as vehicles and can get incorrectly returned if the destination parcel is no-entry or parcel-full
[12:18 PM] Ardy Lay: Prims cross regions too, but, textures do not.
[12:18 PM] Pauline Darkfury: It already does let you see the mono time vs. total time, Gooden
[12:18 PM] Nber Medici: Simon... it has been ongoing since 2007 at LEAST
[12:18 PM] Simon Linden: yes, that's also being considered for the crossing work
[12:18 PM] Techwolf Lupindo: The mono rezzing fix was delayed for a couple years due to that old OS/mono engine that couldn't be worked around without upgraded it.
[12:18 PM] Pauline Darkfury: I agree that it needs more columns though
[12:18 PM] Gooden Uggla: yes paulione, but the idea would be to make topscripts less confusing
[12:18 PM] Nber Medici: Can a Linden comment on the Jira? at least to let the sailors know something is being done?
[12:18 PM] Simon Linden: Right Nber, crossings have been troublesome forever. There have been improvements along the way, but it still needs work
[12:18 PM] Pauline Darkfury: Script count is an obvious missing one. Actual memory usage is another (and not the ficticious memory usage currently given by llGetObjectDetails, the real usage)
[12:19 PM] Nber Medici: The sailing and aviation communities would at least like to know that it is being worked on. It is a black hole.
[12:19 PM] Pauline Darkfury: And, now that it's average time being shown, both a long and short average would be very useful
[12:19 PM] Gooden Uggla: they could insert a script count where the script time is now, without really having to do anything else
[12:19 PM] Simon Linden: I'm pretty sure Kelly was doing some work on that memory reporting or access to that info, but don't have the details
[12:20 PM] Qie [Qie Niangao]: So, just in passing, apropos sim crossings: Since last week's roll, I've had dramatically improved reliability in crossings of simple single-prim objects. (My stuff does thousands of them a day, all around the Atoll)
[12:20 PM] Arawn Graalrd [Arawn Spitteler] wonders if the lindens sent to work on crossings are sucked into the black holes, and, do they age beneath the Event Horizon
[12:20 PM] Pauline Darkfury: Yup, the proper memory reporting has been raised numerous times, so hopefully it's still somewhere on the todo list
[12:20 PM] Nber Medici: hehehe Arawn
[12:21 PM] Simon Linden: There are some conflicting requirements involved ... for example, when you cross regions, all your scripts are saved, passed over to the new region, and restored (de-serialized)
[12:22 PM] Simon Linden: That de-serialization process is slow
[12:22 PM] Gooden Uggla: at the moment the entire grid is suffering from the painful process of trying to fix mono
[12:22 PM] Simon Linden: So if we do all your scripts at once, everyone else sees a lag event as the region stops to do all that work
[12:22 PM] Simon Linden: If we spread those out over multiple frames, we can make the region run faster, but teh crossings get slower
[12:23 PM] Nber Medici: So vehicles suffer
[12:23 PM] Pauline Darkfury: Yup, I think there's some serious bugs that were not caught in beta & RC, that have sadly made Mono 2 worse in some cases, and that will hit region crossings hard if either side of the crossing is experiencing one of the problems
[12:23 PM] Vincent Nacon: Arawn, can I ask why you're wearing your "Old electric cooker" vendor?
[12:23 PM] Simon Linden: well, it's a balancing act. Everyone will want the region to run smoothly, unless they're the ones doing the crossing :)
[12:23 PM] Arawn Graalrd [Arawn Spitteler]: Is it the vendor? I wore it earlier, but have been a cloud all day.
[12:23 PM] Vincent Nacon: yeah
[12:24 PM] Qie [Qie Niangao]: Because the New Electric Cooker would be too ostentatious.
[12:24 PM] Gooden Uggla: yes arawn, you're wearing a box on your right hand
[12:24 PM] Vincent Nacon: L$100
[12:24 PM] Gooden Uggla: rather large one
[12:24 PM] Vincent Nacon: muhaha!
[12:24 PM] Ardy Lay: I thought it was yet another "fashion statement".
[12:24 PM] Simon Linden: Anyway, that's a gross simplification of the problem, but it gives you an idea of what we're dealing with
[12:24 PM] Nber Medici: The Blake Sea regions don't have much in them EXCEPT for vehicles crossing.
[12:24 PM] Vincent Nacon: yeah or something
[12:24 PM] Nber Medici: Are transcripts of these office hours posted? I have had problems finding them.
[12:24 PM] Gooden Uggla: i think we all understand that it'll be a rough few weeks till things get fixed
[12:24 PM] Pauline Darkfury: region crossing were generally getting much better prior to Mono 2, at least for say up to around 100 scripts
[12:25 PM] Arawn Graalrd [Arawn Spitteler]'s been cloudy a lot, lately
[12:25 PM] Gooden Uggla: then again for the de-serialization side of the problem...
[12:25 PM] Vincent Nacon: might be your connection?
[12:25 PM] You decline 2011 SFL RFL Weekend Slip Rental Info from A group member named Chad Sawson.
[12:25 PM] Arawn Graalrd [Arawn Spitteler]: It might be; should I call Comcast?
[12:25 PM] Pauline Darkfury: the relevant script count is all of your attachments, HUDs, and your vehicle
[12:25 PM] Simon Linden: Links to the user group transcripts are in the calendar area on
[12:25 PM] Gooden Uggla: pauline the ironic part is that sim crossing were improved by the prep for the mono fix
[12:25 PM] Vincent Nacon: I wouldn't be surprised
[12:26 PM] Gooden Uggla: :)
[12:26 PM] You decline 2011 SFL RFL Weekend Slip Rental Info from A group member named Chad Sawson.
[12:26 PM] Simon Linden: Andrew was behind on posting them, but I think he caught up
[12:26 PM] You decline 2011 SFL RFL Weekend Slip Rental Info from A group member named Chad Sawson.
[12:26 PM] Simon Linden: There were some genuine fixes in that mono work ... Kelly found and removed some really bad lag points
[12:26 PM] Nber Medici: May I post a copy of this chat to the sailing and aviation communities?
[12:26 PM] Simon Linden: AFAIK this conversation is public, Nber
[12:27 PM] Nber Medici: Yes Simon... I looked at that ㋡ thanks
[12:27 PM] Pauline Darkfury: I think it's generally accepted that office hours / user groups / public meetings are not something that the normal disclosure rules apply to
[12:27 PM] Nber Medici: I thought as much... but wanted to verify.
[12:28 PM] Simon Linden: Going back a ways, there was always some really bad lag de-serialing mono scripts. That specific problem is a lot better now, but I think there's still a lot of issues balancing that "do it all now" vs. "do it slowly" problem
[12:28 PM] Gooden Uggla: it's still the major remaining sim freeze *nods*
[12:28 PM] Arawn Graalrd [Arawn Spitteler] hassn't signed any non-disclosure agreements, not even the ones not to disclose what he can't disclose.
[12:28 PM] Pauline Darkfury: Yes, I think the overall concept is good with Mono 2, but there's some major tuning effort needed
[12:29 PM] Simon Linden: yeah, I'm not aware of any specific Linden policy on it, but we post 'em on the wiki, so I don't think it's a secret
[12:29 PM] Leonel Iceghost: but why de-serialing is slower than serialing.. shouldn't it be faster?
[12:29 PM] Arawn Graalrd [Arawn Spitteler]: We try to post them on the wiki
[12:29 PM] Pauline Darkfury: The Community Standards thing on disclosure kinda prohibits it, but long standing actions by LL staff in posting the transcripts say it's ok
[12:29 PM] Simon Linden: Leonel - that's a good question, but Kelly is really the person who would know the most
[12:30 PM] Gooden Uggla: a good rule of thumb is to decide whether a conversation takes place privately or if it takes place during an "event"
[12:30 PM] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is half over
[12:30 PM] You decline Fruit Islands Northern Buoyage from A group member named Elbag Gable.
[12:30 PM] You decline 2011 SFL RFL Weekend Slip Rental Info from A group member named Chad Sawson.
[12:30 PM] A group member named Chad Sawson gave you 2011 SFL RFL Weekend Slip Rental Info.
[12:31 PM] Vincent Nacon: ...did we ran out of topic?
[12:31 PM] Pauline Darkfury: Talking of the various perf things, I don't think the Jira has been mentioned for it. Please add any specific details and observations to SVC-7079, as I get the impression that the issues are still not 100% understood and documented
[12:31 PM] JIRA-helper:
[#SVC-7079] Simulator performance issues since server roll (2011-06-30)
[12:31 PM] Simon Linden: I think so ... the table's open, I guess
[12:32 PM] Nber Medici: Is there a Linden that is specifically working on sim crossings issues? (I apologize for being single track !)
[12:33 PM] Simon Linden: hmm, SVC-7079 looks like Kelly's work on trying to tweak all those script timing parameters
[12:33 PM] Gooden Uggla: yes simon
[12:33 PM] Simon Linden: Nber - yes, someone is assigned to it
[12:33 PM] Simon Linden: One other aspect Kelly was working on is the timeslice allotment we give to each script
[12:33 PM] Arawn Graalrd [Arawn Spitteler]: Simon mentioned that there was a specific linden, but doesn't want to say whose being sacrificed to the black hole.
[12:33 PM] Nber Medici: Sorry to be poking with a sharp stick ㋡
[12:34 PM] Nber Medici: LOL
[12:34 PM] Nber Medici: yes Arawn
[12:34 PM] Simon Linden: yeah, I know this person doesn't want their name out :)
[12:34 PM] Pauline Darkfury: I think it's fair to say that region crossing issues are something pretty much all of the server folks are aware of and want to improve, tbh, it's just not something that they can do "region_crossings_good=TRUE;" ;)
[12:34 PM] Ardy Lay: Simon, did you get to keep any of those lag-o-morphs that were running loose in the datacenter?
[12:34 PM] Simon Linden: I'm not sure what you mean, Ardy
[12:35 PM] Nber Medici: Thanks Simon... gotta go... hope you feel better soon! ㋡
[12:35 PM] Ardy Lay: ... +truth.jpg
[12:35 PM] Ardy Lay:
[12:35 PM] JIRA-helper: [#SVC-7031] Chat Lag is broken!
[12:35 PM] Simon Linden: ah, the wonderful Meeroos :)
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Re: Sim Crossings

Postby bunnie mills » Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:09 am

Thank you Nber.
The failure rate in the recent weeks has grown again to showstopper quality.
It is about time we get some answers from Linden.
I wonder if we should do a protest marathon around Barbarossa.
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Re: Sim Crossings

Postby Nber Medici » Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:57 am

You are welcome Bunnie.

IMHO, (and this is a GROSS over exaggeration), there are two kinds of SL Users... tech types who understand scripting and server kinds of issues and those like me and most of the people I associate with that aren't stupid by any stretch of the imagination but are not technicians. Call us "power users". The Linden who does not want to be named ("He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named") is I suspect a technician and doesn't want people like us bugging him.

What the sailing and aviation communities desperately need is a Linden who has the ability to translate to us... the power users... what they are doing and why. Hell, if I just knew that I'd feel better!
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Re: Sim Crossings

Postby Joyofrlc Acker » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:52 pm

I utterly agree --- its the lack of transparency that is most bothering. Especially when they create the impression, perhaps wrongly, of taking steps backwards.
And I don't think its quite fair to "blame" sailors, or aeronauts, or ferroequinologists ... as Nber puts it, we are the power users, we arent trying to do things that are inherently counter to what SL should be providing.
Plus the real proof that things arent well, is how often we crash doing simple things (I crashed this afternoon with Avi just flying between sims - 'dressed light' for sailing).

We definitely need that liaison with LL; but an important part of that role is to then disseminate the information back to the whole community. A simple example --- to me as a non-technical person it seems risky to perpetually have adjacent sims on different server versions. That can never be a good thing. Do we know why they do it? Have they even considered having large contiguous "regions" (like Blake, or Sailors Cove) on the same server version?

Come to that, why are they releasing changes every single week? Whatever happened to getting it right the first time? It has to lead to a staggering amount of redundancy in testing.
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Re: Sim Crossings

Postby Lance Corrimal » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:31 am

Joyofrlc Acker wrote:We definitely need that liaison with LL

uhm... didn't there used to be one?

ok, specifically for blake sea, but blake sea has sim borders too...
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Re: Sim Crossings

Postby Chakku451 Rieko » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:28 am

Being totally NONtechnical (I have to have my 18-y-o neice put the names and numbers on my cell phone for me), I'd be happy just knowing that there is someone working on these issues, who their name is, and how long they expect it's going to take. "On going" would be an acceptable answer, as long as I knew there was actually some work being done.

Joyofrlc Acker wrote:We definitely need that liaison with LL; but an important part of that role is to then disseminate the information back to the whole community. A simple example --- to me as a non-technical person it seems risky to perpetually have adjacent sims on different server versions. That can never be a good thing. Do we know why they do it? Have they even considered having large contiguous "regions" (like Blake, or Sailors Cove) on the same server version?

I never understood this aspect of the servers. You're 100% correct, Joy, in my option. Having adjacent regions on different servers CANNOT be a good thing. Sure, there's going to be a point where it will have to happen, but let say...make it the border strip between the eastern Blake Sea corridor and the Sailors Cove or Greenhouse/Trudeau sims. Definately NOT the southern border of Santa Catalina (which is the runway approach for Hollywood Airport), but shuck & darn, the border between north Santa Catalina and south Hollywood would be palatable at least. Part of the reason that I've only been out sailing twice and flying three times in the last 5 weeks has been the horrendous sim crossing conditions. I consider it a major victory to paddle my kayak, at medium speed and dressed for sailing, from the dock just south of the runways in Santa Catalina to my home on the southern edge of Holly Kai Estates.

As far as an actually liason is concerned, it seems to be a death sentance for the Linden assigned. The last two that I know of were assigned the position, then given their walking papers less than a week later. Hell, the last one was named on a Saturday, then the following Monday morning there was a notice that they had been let go by LL. (I could have missed an announcement or 6 since then as my RL job plays havoc on my SL time as of late.)

Sorry if I seem to be just pontificating or moaning in general. The quality of my SL Experience hit the 2nd lowest point last weekend (RfL weekend) with a 90% TP failure rate, crashing while just trying to turn my avi to face someone, and clothing issues so bad that I just assumed that while I saw myself dressed, everyone else saw me nekkie.
When life gets you down and you feel totally depressed, there's only one thing to do...


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Re: Sim Crossings

Postby Joyofrlc Acker » Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:00 pm

I probably wasn't 100% clear ... I was, rather backhandedly, asking who on OUR side of things is fulfilling the liaison role. (I understand that LL has been spinning the revolving door a bit over the last year but lets start with our side).

OF COURSE there is fa more to the sailing community then Blake Sea, but I seem to recall some sort of Blake Sea Steering committee that had, somehow, established a general liaison role with LL for sailing matters in general (as well as specifically Blakeian matters). I guess I'm not in the loop, cos I never hear I thing from them on matters such as this.

If BSSC has gone to sleep, or this is not, in fact, in their remit then we need something else.

BTW I was quite surprised when I was spelunking around some blog posts about the rollouts a few months back that were causing problems at that time, to find how vocal the Train community was. Perhaps we need to make links to other communities that have issues with vehicles & sim crossings or lags. Maybe if we're lucky we can find and enlist the help SL Hells Angels and sic them on LL.

I write this after a disastrous day of racing today: Lap 1 2 /5 finished; Lap 2 1 / 5 finished. And we worry about how "realistic" SL boats are????

As has been said so many times, it is the lack of direction, published goals, and any sort of plan that is most worrying.
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Re: Sim Crossings

Postby Nomad Zamani » Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:29 pm

The purpose of the BSSC was to offer sailing-related opinions, when asked, on Blake Sea matters. It was made up of two senior members of each of the yacht clubs located in the Blake Sea area. The liaison process was roughly something like this: LL ask MTW about some Blake Sea matter, MTW gets comment from BSSC, MTW feeds comments back to LL. MTW was also 'retained as a consultant', as it were, by LL, to discuss and advise on sailing matters in environs beyond the Blake Sea - the sailing scene in general. The BSSC never had a similar role - its remit was purely the Blake Sea. As it turned out, the BSSC was never asked for an opinion on a Blake Sea matter - it never got any further than the administrative work involved with its own creation and drawing up a list of Blake RDs (and that is still unfinished).

When the BSSC was formed, the LL liason was Blondin, who is now gone. Furthermore, I understand that MTW has largely retired from the sailing scene, and I'm not sure if he still has an interest in active participation in this context. The BSSC is effectively moribund - it has been silent for nearly a year. At present, I'm not sure what the liaison situation is with respect to the Blake Sea area, or any liaison effort in any other area, come to that. I assume there are casual liaisons and requests for things like infrastructure changes, but I'm not aware of anything, anywhere, on a more formal footing like an equivalent of the BSSC arrangement.

It is my personal view that the destructive intra-community politics and flame wars that came about just after the BSSC was formed, largely carried out in public, gave the sailing community a very bad press. One has to wonder why LL would have spent time and money making our lot better, when we ourselves were riddled with in-fighting. When one reads the terms of their Community Partnership Program, it is clear that LL expect to deal with communities that have some reckonable meansure of unity, and persons who can reasonably be described as community leaders. When the first attempt to establish a more formal arrangement results in a pointless civil war, it's hardly surprising that their enthusiasm is somewhat dampened. Of course, the political in-fighting also resulted in a fragmentation of the community - at a senior level, at least - and I can't see those who are not of a mutually friendly disposition getting together to form some community-wide representative body that liaises with LL. That may change - it has been a year since self-destruction was the order of the day - but I haven't heard of any moves to make such a thing happen.
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