Not JUST Another Nav HUD ... (Trap's new Nav Hud).

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Not JUST Another Nav HUD ... (Trap's new Nav Hud).

Postby Joyofrlc Acker » Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:54 am

Not JUST Another Nav HUD ... (Trap's new Nav Hud).

Kudos to Trap for her new Navigation HUD. We've all received a copy her new HUD, and the underlying idea of a server so the community can share courses is a paradigm shift for how we have been doing things so far.

Also hopefully Trap can add a "statement of direction" or some such in here.

So I think a thread here for us to give Trap some feedback might be a good idea.

Here's my six penn'orth. Mostly not fully baked yet - but I think its important to start a discussion.

1. IMHO This is an EXCELLENT idea, basically well implemented (but see #6 )

2. I think it wold be great if Trap could give us some sort of statement of direction for future development (if any).

3. The idea of a server so we can all share is excellent, but it does beg some obvious big issues -- I've grouped them below in a section of their own.

4. I like the interface, its clean and pretty straightforward.

5. The "manual" could include the fact that in navigation mode clicking the globe or the CW / CCW circle will "repeat" the current mark (useful for when the LM beacon vanishes as happpens all to often).

6. There seems to be a sim-specific bug in Aegean - I save a course apparently successfully but it cant be accessed ("download error") either for Navigationor for Edit. Has anyone else foun the same thing anywhere else?

7. The idea, when recording a course, of recognising marks already recorded is excellent but the SL limit on dialogue button size is a big problem - another mechanism is probably needed for confirmation / selection. Not sure about the criteria for selecting candidates as "existing" marks (ie how long a list there would be) but probably the answer is to put the full names into the prompt portion of the dialog, with a nuber and just have the number on the button(s).

8. I think the idea of having to be in the startline sim is a bit restrictive. With my own HUD the 1st "waypoint" is usually the rezz zone so I can get to the race fro anywhere.

9. It would be nice to be able to exit a course without having to > all the way to the end.

10. When you < all the way back to the start, there is no Chat msg for Mark 1 of n - it would be nice to say "At start" or something.

Database design / Server Related Issues

This is the big stuff. I'm still digesting it so these points / questions are not in priority order, or probably all that coherent either, I'm thinking aloud here. Also, if some of my comments seem neagtive please realise that I think the basic idea is excellent as long as we can sort out the issues.

I would not be shocked to learn that Trap has thought about these issues and I really hope she can publish a statement of direction some time soon.

11. Where is the "server". What happens when its down? Backups? Who is maintaining it?

12. Hopefully its low lag --- we need a stress test. I'm willing to offer the FIYC fun Friday race for that (11 am, one of the Sailors Cove start lines, TBA).

13. It would be nice to link charts (textures) into the course data.

14. It would be nice to be able to associate a comment or note with waypoints.

15. Course names -- is there an "owner" (ie who can edit / delete courses)? Can there be two courses with the same name ("test") - in different / same sim; different / same owner?

16. Ideally there should be "public" and "private" courses. and the ability to copy from Public to Private. (In my own HUD I often use additional waypoints to the official race marks; everyone would have different ideas on what to include).

17. "Limits" - any limits on the number of courses, or number of waypoints?

18 I think that the "course" selection should be a 2 level menu:
- pick Sim
- Pick course
as opposed to only showing courses for the current sim (that is a very arbitrary restriction especially when one is just over the border from the actual startline, eg Syracuse/Dex)

19 I'd like to link up the WWC setter to this so the RDs can have a similar facility for organising Wind/Wave/Current settings - Ill contact Trap directly about this.


That's it for now ... one again - KUDOS to Trap!
Joyofrlc Acker
Posts: 391
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:35 am

Re: Not JUST Another Nav HUD ... (Trap's new Nav Hud).

Postby Trapez Breen » Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:52 am

Here are some answer for you, Joy:

2. I will continue to add more editing features and make a lightweight
version, one that only reads courses. Later on I will look at map

7. Yes, probably. If I make the change in 15. something more than button
text is needed.

9. I intentionally left that out so you wouldn't mistakenly click the wrong
button in a race, I might put it in editor HUD once the race HUD is out.

11. The server is on Google App Engine

I'm not worried about dataloss on the App Engine, as the data gets
replicated across multiple disks in several datacenters. I will add
an export functionality, so you can download your own data in a
convenient format.

As for downtime, that will happen, but I doubt it will be much.

12. The HUD you have now is the editor version, it's at 620 lines of lsl
now and growing quickly. That's ok, I will have a lightweight race version
ready very soon.

13. Yes, either that or generate them when needed.

14. Yes, optional comments and/or names would be nice. That would have
to be in edit mode, I want the creation of courses to be as simple
as possible.

15. You own the courses you make in the sense that only you can delete

Right now the Course "key" is <region name>/<user name>. That limits
it to one unique name per region. I could change the "key" to <user
name>/<region name>/<course name> to avoid that.

16. Yes, good idea. Not hard to implement, so should come soon.

17. Not yet, but I will set some limit on the number of marks per
course, maybe 24?

18 I imagined you would go to a place of interest, be it a race ,a
cruise or whatever, hit your HUD and pick a course.

19 Sounds interesting and very doable.
Trapez Breen
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:59 am

Re: Not JUST Another Nav HUD ... (Trap's new Nav Hud).

Postby Joyofrlc Acker » Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:12 pm

Thanks Trap. Sounds like you are going to be busy.

I dont know anything about the Google App server but on the face of it sounds good. I'll take a loot and comment later.

IMHO (depending on the usage this gets in the community) the "key" for storing courses is the biggest issue (well second biggest, the biggest is to find out why I cant use courses that i create LOL!). I really think that
user/region/name is the best way to go. ESPECIALLY if name has to be short so that the button texts are unique.

For me ... go to a sim and look for a course is rare. Usually I know the course and want the fastest way to TP to the rezz line. Yes there are several ways to do that - I have just got into the habit of going right into my HUD, Pick course (anywhere) and 1st waypoint is the rezz area. But lets see what everyone else thinks.

Nightmare thought - what happens if Regions get renamed? (Does that ever happen?). Region disappearing - the point is moot I guess.

Did I see you say somewhere that even if courses might be either private or public that waypoints are always public? I'm sort of wondering about that. (I now you want something that is simple to use, but perhpas some people would like to keep some waypoints secret.

---- scope creep alert ----
It would be good to be able to see all the waypoints in a list (in record mode at least). In fact when recording a course it would be nice to be able to select an existing waypoint from a menu to include in the new course, and save having find it on map or whatever then TP there to record it.

Should certain name prefixes be reserved to certain users? Im thinking that only a GGY RD should be able to make a course name starting GGY. Otherwise I can make a course "GGY Dire 01" and don is stuck with it (and vice versa for FIYC etc etc).

Ill drop you a Notecard about the WWC setter.
Joyofrlc Acker
Posts: 391
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:35 am

Re: Not JUST Another Nav HUD ... (Trap's new Nav Hud).

Postby Joyofrlc Acker » Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:15 pm

Another thought .... if you want to stick with only showing courses in the current sim (I think you were saying theres a technical reason for that) .... perhaps you could add into the toolbox a totally separate "Pick Sim for TP" function - - pop up a list of the regions we know about clcik and poof.
Joyofrlc Acker
Posts: 391
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:35 am

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